—> ICE / Immigration / Video from ICE shooter POV released, firestorm ensues

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wmheel1287 said:
Correct. This is the morally correct answer. This is also the legally correct answer.
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Yes, there is a long list of things this ICE officer and the other officers did not do according to their training or law enforcement policy. All of which would be hard for a Jury to ignore when deciding whether or not to give him a pass for shooting her three times.
 
wmheel1287 said:
Correct. This is the morally correct answer. This is also the legally correct answer.
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That is incorrect. ICE is able to make arrests for any federal crime they witness while they are performing their duties.

I stole this from Reddit. ICE officers are peace officers. If they have probable cause to believe you committed a federal crime, they can arrest you. If they catch you pirating a copy of Titanic and putting it up on Napster, they can arrest you.

As part of department policy, they would likely get in a fair bit of trouble if they did that. They are funded to perform immigrations and customs enforcement. There is also a very good chance that if you are arrested for stealing James Cameron's royalties, the federal prosecutor will drop the charges because ICE isn't interested in doing any of the follow-up work to secure conviction. But it's not a legal defense that ICE arrested you.

More realistically if ICE is doing some sort of enforcement action and they happen upon you cooking meth as a side hustle from your high school chemistry teaching gig, they are likely going to arrest you and wait for the DEA to come pick you up. That is why Congress gave them that power. But whether it's cooking meth because your son has cerebral palsy, or violating copyright law because you're a huge fan of Leonardo DiCaprio, or blocking the street because you are protesting Trump's heavy handed immigration policies, they are legally able to arrest you.
 
I find myself so disheartened that this society and smart people continue to get baited into morally decrepit debates about whether a naked murder was because someone committed a traffic violation or loosey goosey felony.

Part of my family is from Mississippi and I grew up hearing those folks justify lynchings in similar terms. This is so very dark.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
That is incorrect. ICE is able to make arrests for any federal crime they witness while they are performing their duties.

I stole this from Reddit. ICE officers are peace officers. If they have probable cause to believe you committed a federal crime, they can arrest you. If they catch you pirating a copy of Titanic and putting it up on Napster, they can arrest you.

As part of department policy, they would likely get in a fair bit of trouble if they did that. They are funded to perform immigrations and customs enforcement. There is also a very good chance that if you are arrested for stealing James Cameron's royalties, the federal prosecutor will drop the charges because ICE isn't interested in doing any of the follow-up work to secure conviction. But it's not a legal defense that ICE arrested you.

More realistically if ICE is doing some sort of enforcement action and they happen upon you cooking meth as a side hustle from your high school chemistry teaching gig, they are likely going to arrest you and wait for the DEA to come pick you up. That is why Congress gave them that power. But whether it's cooking meth because your son has cerebral palsy, or violating copyright law because you're a huge fan of Leonardo DiCaprio, or blocking the street because you are protesting Trump's heavy handed immigration policies, they are legally able to arrest you.
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She committed no federal crime. There is no suspicion or hint of her committing a federal crime. Disrupting ICE feom driving down a residential street when they are not at all in the process of apprehending or interrogating someone suspected of a immigration offense is not a federal crime.
 
rodoheel said:
Soft-pedal victim-blaming is still victim-blaming, whatever you want to tell yourself. Interacting with properly trained federal law enforcement officers should not put one at risk of death or serious injury. The fact that you are obviously more concerned with the behavior of the murdered mom than the repeatedly demonstrated thuggery, escalation, and lying of ICE and the administration says all anyone needs to know about your own personal moral compass.
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When you have put yourself in a situation where you have to drive your vehicle around and through armed state local or federal agents, there are risks. It's no different than resisting arrest. Resisting arrest should not be punishable by death and is not, in itself, a threat to the life of an officer. However, you have to have situational awareness as a person and especially as a parent of young children.
 
wmheel1287 said:
She committed no federal crime. There is no suspicion or hint of her committing a federal crime. Disrupting ICE feom driving down a residential street when they are not at all in the process of apprehending or interrogating someone suspected of a immigration offense is not a federal crime.
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Similar protestors have been charged, and in some cases convicted, of conspiracy to impede or injure an officer. I've linked some news stories above.
 
ZenMode said:
Nope. Just make better choices as a parent. When my wife got pregnant with our first child, I stopped some activities and modified others because of the risk of death or serious injury.
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Non-violent exercise of your first amendment rights to petition the government for redress should not come with any risk of death or serious injury, you hard of thinking Muppet.
 
ZenMode said:
When you have put yourself in a situation where you have to drive your vehicle around and through armed state local or federal agents, there are risks. It's no different than resisting arrest. Resisting arrest should not be punishable by death and is not, in itself, a threat to the life of an officer. However, you have to have situational awareness as a person and especially as a parent of young children.
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It is not REMOTELY the same as resisting arrest.
 
StrangePackage said:
Non-violent exercise of your first amendment rights to petition the government for redress should not come with any risk of death or serious injury, you hard of thinking Muppet.
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Unless she's been living under a news/informational rock, the minute you do anything that can be perceived as a threat on the life of law enforcement, you are putting yourself in danger. Instinctively reaching to pull your parts up, reaching for your wallet, resisting arrest, driving your vehicle toward law enforcement, etc Cops are almost always given the benefit of the doubt and police forces/lawyers are experts in painting a "life at risk" picture.

This is far from the first "life at risk" claim I've seen end badly for the driver and I don't expect this to end in charges for the cop, either.
 
ZenMode said:
Unless she's been living under a news/informational rock, the minute you do anything that can be perceived as a threat on the life of law enforcement, you are putting yourself in danger. Instinctively reaching to pull your parts up, reaching for your wallet, resisting arrest, driving your vehicle toward law enforcement, etc Cops are almost always given the benefit of the doubt and police forces/lawyers are experts in painting a "life at risk" picture.

This is far from the first "life at risk" claim I've seen end badly for the driver and I don't expect this to end in charges for the cop, either.
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Big "What was she wearing" energy.

I have nothing but pity for your children.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
That is incorrect. ICE is able to make arrests for any federal crime they witness while they are performing their duties.

I stole this from Reddit. ICE officers are peace officers. If they have probable cause to believe you committed a federal crime, they can arrest you. If they catch you pirating a copy of Titanic and putting it up on Napster, they can arrest you.

As part of department policy, they would likely get in a fair bit of trouble if they did that. They are funded to perform immigrations and customs enforcement. There is also a very good chance that if you are arrested for stealing James Cameron's royalties, the federal prosecutor will drop the charges because ICE isn't interested in doing any of the follow-up work to secure conviction. But it's not a legal defense that ICE arrested you.

More realistically if ICE is doing some sort of enforcement action and they happen upon you cooking meth as a side hustle from your high school chemistry teaching gig, they are likely going to arrest you and wait for the DEA to come pick you up. That is why Congress gave them that power. But whether it's cooking meth because your son has cerebral palsy, or violating copyright law because you're a huge fan of Leonardo DiCaprio, or blocking the street because you are protesting Trump's heavy handed immigration policies, they are legally able to arrest you.
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Ah, Reddit. An unimpeachable source of wisdom. Too bad that it is actually not a criminal offense to pirate a copy of Titanic and put it up on Napster. Kind of detracts the credibility of the rest of the incorrect analysis.

It is worth remembering that the yellowjacket here claims to be a data scientist but messes up basic statistical concepts. So his acumen may not be as good as he thinks. I'll give him credit -- he's the second best bee lawyer I've ever heard of, comfortably behind Jerry Seinfeld's Barry but maybe if he studies Reddit some more he can give Barry a bit of a run for his money.
 
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