If You Were EVER a Republican...WHY? Part Two: What role did Carolina play in your leaving behind the GOP?

Please explain.
It was all based on Chile's beliefs or perceptions. He felt republicans were more fiscally responsible so when he believed the republicans to not be fiscally responsible he began to side more with the side he originally felt was least fiscally responsible.
 
It was all based on Chile's beliefs or perceptions. He felt republicans were more fiscally responsible so when he believed the republicans to not be fiscally responsible he began to side more with the side he originally felt was least fiscally responsible.
Yes, but maybe his thought that the Republicans were fiscally responsible was wrong. I felt the same way, but the data doesn't support it. While neight party is good in this area, the only two times we came close to balancing the budget in the lastb50 years was under democratic leadership.

Reagan talked a good game but he never had a balanced budget and trickle down was a joke.

Hope you're doing well, I figured you had me blocked seeing that you've not responded to any questions I posed in the last few weeks.
 
Neither side should be legislating morals. Let people live their lives.
As a society, there has to be some standards. Is it immoral to engage in necrophilia? Is it immoral to break laws? Maybe it is or isn't based on the severity of the law. Is it immoral cheat on your spouse? Some level of morality has to be legislated. Where that level is is the point of disagreement. We can all agree that murder is immoral and that is legislated. Abortion is one of the best examples of where that level begins to splinter.
 
Yes, but maybe his thought that the Republicans were fiscally responsible was wrong. I felt the same way, but the data doesn't support it. While neight party is good in this area, the only two times we came close to balancing the budget in the lastb50 years was under democratic leadership.

Reagan talked a good game but he never had a balanced budget and trickle down was a joke.

Hope you're doing well, I figured you had me blocked seeing that you've not responded to any questions I posed in the last few weeks.
1 of those times was driven by Newt and the republican controlled congress. Clinton was forced to play ball.

I am well and I hope you are. Would never block you - always been cool with you. Or anyone really, regardless of how much I disagree with them. Ignore is for weak minded vaginas. I use to enjoy the board more but realized nothing really gets an objective discussion so I don't have any problem stepping away for days or weeks. To few conservative voices to balance anything out. Wasn't ignoring you at all. just reached my tolerance level of arguing when you had replied to my comments. Always enjoy interacting with you.
 
Given the general morality among politicians, it doesn't seem to be a good idea entrusting them with the task of setting the standards for same. Setting laws for well being and safety is their job... then, I'm not sure I trust them with even that.
 
Yes, but maybe his thought that the Republicans were fiscally responsible was wrong. I felt the same way, but the data doesn't support it. While neight party is good in this area, the only two times we came close to balancing the budget in the lastb50 years was under democratic leadership.

Reagan talked a good game but he never had a balanced budget and trickle down was a joke.

Hope you're doing well, I figured you had me blocked seeing that you've not responded to any questions I posed in the last few weeks.
He also almost tripled the national debt. That's a lot of what put us in the hole with the interest payments. Well, there was the misadventure in Iraq and the mishandling of Covid. Both of those were big contributors.
 
It was all based on Chile's beliefs or perceptions. He felt republicans were more fiscally responsible so when he believed the republicans to not be fiscally responsible he began to side more with the side he originally felt was least fiscally responsible.
You misread that.

You asked for reasons why I was originally registered as a Republican. I gave two examples. I never said why I changed to Unaffiliated. You made an assumption.
 
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As a society, there has to be some standards. Is it immoral to engage in necrophilia? Is it immoral to break laws? Maybe it is or isn't based on the severity of the law. Is it immoral cheat on your spouse? Some level of morality has to be legislated. Where that level is is the point of disagreement. We can all agree that murder is immoral and that is legislated. Abortion is one of the best examples of where that level begins to splinter.
Murder isn’t illegal because it’s immoral. It’s illegal because it deprives or takes away another person’s civil rights.
 
1 of those times was driven by Newt and the republican controlled congress. Clinton was forced to play ball.

I am well and I hope you are. Would never block you - always been cool with you. Or anyone really, regardless of how much I disagree with them. Ignore is for weak minded vaginas. I use to enjoy the board more but realized nothing really gets an objective discussion so I don't have any problem stepping away for days or weeks. To few conservative voices to balance anything out. Wasn't ignoring you at all. just reached my tolerance level of arguing when you had replied to my comments. Always enjoy interacting with you.
If your first paragraph is true, then why did the same Republican Congress vote to blow up the deficit the very next year when Bush was president?
 
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1 of those times was driven by Newt and the republican controlled congress. Clinton was forced to play ball.

I am well and I hope you are. Would never block you - always been cool with you. Or anyone really, regardless of how much I disagree with them. Ignore is for weak minded vaginas. I use to enjoy the board more but realized nothing really gets an objective discussion so I don't have any problem stepping away for days or weeks. To few conservative voices to balance anything out. Wasn't ignoring you at all. just reached my tolerance level of arguing when you had replied to my comments. Always enjoy interacting with you.
The reason I mentioned that is I asked some specific questions to understand the opinion from your perspective. Maybe the way I asked them was a factor, that's probably not my strong suit. I do try to have a conversation though I do let my emotions factor into my responses.
 
I do my best to let my sense of the absurd to drive my responses. Fortunately, the political climate makes that easier.
 
As a society, there has to be some standards. Is it immoral to engage in necrophilia? Is it immoral to break laws? Maybe it is or isn't based on the severity of the law. Is it immoral cheat on your spouse? Some level of morality has to be legislated. Where that level is is the point of disagreement. We can all agree that murder is immoral and that is legislated. Abortion is one of the best examples of where that level begins to splinter.
Completely agree on societal standards.

But I don't believe those are all simply moral issues. And I believe that morals are actual fluid, I'm sure that many who are against gay marriage would claim it's a moral issue, but I do not believe it is.

In my opinion laws should be to keep people from hurting each other. Murder is pretty much the pinnacle of hurting another person. Abortion is medical procedure, I don't agree with it as a birth control, but I believe that laws have to give the person rights to control their own medical choices.

It's probably semantics regarding morals. Getting past that, I believe there are societal norms and protections that need to be legislated, I'm just don't see all of those as moral issues.
 
The abortion thing started as a means to achieve temporal power. There was literally a man to man increase in national power so fertility was important to both nations and religion since the force multipliers were primitive and limited. That became conflated with it as a moral issue, certainly not a view justified by the Bible. Even if it were, the transition from God's Top Ten Bad Things to Do is barely a social peccadillo. In other words don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining.

As a point of fact, the only thing close to a mention to abortion in the Bible basically involves the husband's right to force one on his wife if he thinks she cheated. Compare that to the several times adultery comes up.
 
I still self-identify as Republican but my views have moderated a lot in the last 10-15 years.

Part of that is having more life experiences and challenging my existing belief system. Part of it is just forming a strong internal belief through my lived experience that most people are good, period, regardless of their political views. The average person on “the other side” is not the enemy as some would have you believe. Part of it is having family members way to the left of me and way to the right of me and still maintaining great relationships with all of the above.

I also like to think part of that is me intentionally seeking out places such as this message board (where 95% of people vote Democrat) to stay in tune with what the left is saying. Trying my best to avoid living in my own personal echo chamber.

All of the above leaves me in a place where I generally dislike the candidates on both sides nowadays, which means sometimes I will vote for Democrats but still usually Republicans.

It’s good for one’s credibility and critical thinking skills to have at least *some* beliefs that differ from your party’s mainstream position. If you agree with either the Democratic party on every issue or the Republican party on every issue, you need to reevaluate whether you’re thinking for yourself or if you’re being fed propaganda.
Sincerely appreciate your response HY12, but I don't see where you've gone into any detail about why you hold the beliefs that you either used to hold, or hold now, and why that resulted in your former or current support of the GOP, which I think we'd be much more interested to hear your perspective on.

Quite frankly, your last two or three paragraphs read as a nondescript, inconclusive, and meandering statement on the two major political parties. Also, again, I think many of our board trumpers think that this is a Lefty liberal board - and it does lean left for sure - but it seems MAGA folks like yourself have a harder time accepting that that we are just a collection of those who aren't a part of and who refuse to join the MAGA cult, and we represent various shades of political grey.

Now all that said, I'm sure we'd be much more interested to hear why you hold the beliefs you currently hold, and how those beliefs have evolved over time, if you'd care to share.
 
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I've been meaning to join this thread as I've read each and every single post and have really, really enjoyed seeing everyone share their different perspectives and life experiences. It's really fun to get to know a little more about each poster personally. Obviously the vast majority of us don't know one another in real life, but this is a pretty tight-knit community online and I've grown to admire a whole lot of folks with whom I share this tiny speck of the internet.

I've shared several times over the years that I grew up in a rural, working class/low-income, deeply religious Southern Baptist family (the 'twice on Sundays and once on Wednesdays' kind, with lots of hellfire and brimstone in between). I was the very first person (and still one of the very few- less than 5) in my entire extended family to go to college- out of parents, four grandparents, 18 sets of aunts and uncles, and 62 first cousins. The overwhelming vast majority of my family still live exactly where they grew up. I think I'm one of maybe 5 or 6 in the whole family who don't live in the same county in which I was born.

I grew up as a deep-red, hard-core conservative Republican. I thought Ronald Reagan- though he was before I as even born- was the be-all, end-all of presidents. I listened to Rush Limbaugh on the radio with my dad. I got books written by Ann Coulter and Ron Paul for Christmas and thought they were hilarious ("How to Talk to a Liberal...If You Must" and "If Democrats Had Any Brains They'd Be Republicans" and "Treason: Liberal Treachery" and "The Godless Left"). I generally believed immigrants were criminals, brown people were mostly lazy free-loaders, poor people needed to just get a job, gay people were gross (and sinners!), America was the greatest at literally everything and every other country and culture sucked, and so on and so forth. That's all a bit hyperbolic, but in general described my world view growing up.

I remained conservative all throughout college and even beyond, voting for Trump in 2016 because I thought that the guy who was the "You're fired" guy from The Apprentice must be a super smart businessman who "tells it like it is" and was a political outsider who would reign in all of the corruption in Washington...and plus he annoyed liberals as an added bonus. Oh, and Hillary Clinton was, like, public enemy #1 to any good God-fearing, red-blooded, America-loving patriotic conservative.

For me personally, my political and ideological change began occurring gradually during the first Trump administration. There was never a singular "flip the switch" moment or anything like that- more of a steady 'drip, drip' drip' type thing. In mid-2017 I changed careers and began doing what I currently do, which involves a ton of traveling all over the country, meeting and interacting with a ton of different people with different backgrounds. It was the first time in my life I had ever traveled extensively outside of North Carolina. So for the very first time, I was going to places that growing up I'd heard were big, scary, crime-infested liberal shitholes- places like New York City, San Francisco, Washington DC, Los Angeles, Atlanta, etc. And not only did I find that those places were actually absolutely amazing places with tons of different people and cultures, they were safe and....gasp...fun! It became a heck of a lot harder to believe that immigrants and brown people were lazy free-loaders when I'd see them working their asses off in hotels, in restaurants, on construction sites. It became a lot harder to think that LGBTQ people were icky when I started meeting them and enjoying their acquaintance or friendship. It became harder to think that poor people just needed to get a job when I saw them doing just that, working their tails off in thankless jobs for few wages.

At the same time as my world view was expanding and changing due to my newfound ability to actually get out and see the world, I started paying a lot closer attention to politics. And what I saw and heard when I did so was a whole bunch of lying, gaslighting, and shocking nastiness from the president of the United States- a guy I'd voted to elect. What I saw and heard was nothing at all like what I'd heard and read of Ronald Reagan, or George H.W. Bush, or Bill Clinton, or George W. Bush, or Barack Obama. And then I saw so many sycophants and enablers in the Republican Party at the national level- especially in Congress- who refused to reign him in. That started to really irritate me.

The straw that broke the camel's back for me was the way that Trump handled the onset of the pandemic in early 2020. Even by that time I had soured on him and the GOP tremendously, but had told myself that the economy was doing great, I was making a lot of money, things felt 'good' overall, and why upset the apple cart- I could probably hold my nose and vote for him again. Then the COVID-19 pandemic happened, and instead of being a leader through adversity, Trump was a coward and a liar who exacerbated the adversity and was the primary force that turned what should have been a unifying moment for our country to come together to help each other, into partisan nastiness. And the rest, as they say, is history. If one were to look back on my posting history on the old ZZLP, you'd see outright defense of Trump in 2017 turn to half-hearted defense of Trump in 2018, to general hand-waving dismissiveness about Trump in 2019 because the economy was so good, to disagreement in February and March 2020 with his rhetoric around the pandemic, to outright anger in April and May 2020, to full-fledged hatred in June after I watched him use the United States military to shoot rubber bullets and beat the hell out of protestors in Lafayette Square.

I am certain that my politics and my ideology would have changed and moderated tremendously even if Trump never happened. I have no doubt about it, in fact. That's what getting out and seeing the world and interacting with tons of different people and seeing tons of different places can do. But there's no question in my mind that the way the entire Republican Party has completely surrendered every single solitary aspect of classical conservatism to a conman criminal who is the exact antithesis of conservatism, is something I don't think I'll ever get over. I won't rule out voting for Republicans again in the future, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt it isn't happening at any time in which any vestiges of Trumpism remain. I don't identify as a Democrat or as a liberal, and I certainly do not like or agree with everything that the Democratic Party does, but I am more than happy to vote for them and with them these days as I believe that however flawed their methodologies or ideologies may be at times, they genuinely have a better vision and better goals and better policy aims for how I personally want the United States of America to be governed.

Sorry the the rambling and for the length!
 
I've been meaning to join this thread as I've read each and every single post and have really, really enjoyed seeing everyone share their different perspectives and life experiences. It's really fun to get to know a little more about each poster personally. Obviously the vast majority of us don't know one another in real life, but this is a pretty tight-knit community online and I've grown to admire a whole lot of folks with whom I share this tiny speck of the internet.

I've shared several times over the years that I grew up in a rural, working class/low-income, deeply religious Southern Baptist family (the 'twice on Sundays and once on Wednesdays' kind, with lots of hellfire and brimstone in between). I was the very first person (and still one of the very few- less than 5) in my entire extended family to go to college- out of parents, four grandparents, 18 sets of aunts and uncles, and 62 first cousins. The overwhelming vast majority of my family still live exactly where they grew up. I think I'm one of maybe 5 or 6 in the whole family who don't live in the same county in which I was born.

I grew up as a deep-red, hard-core conservative Republican. I thought Ronald Reagan- though he was before I as even born- was the be-all, end-all of presidents. I listened to Rush Limbaugh on the radio with my dad. I got books written by Ann Coulter and Ron Paul for Christmas and thought they were hilarious ("How to Talk to a Liberal...If You Must" and "If Democrats Had Any Brains They'd Be Republicans" and "Treason: Liberal Treachery" and "The Godless Left"). I generally believed immigrants were criminals, brown people were mostly lazy free-loaders, poor people needed to just get a job, gay people were gross (and sinners!), America was the greatest at literally everything and every other country and culture sucked, and so on and so forth. That's all a bit hyperbolic, but in general described my world view growing up.

I remained conservative all throughout college and even beyond, voting for Trump in 2016 because I thought that the guy who was the "You're fired" guy from The Apprentice must be a super smart businessman who "tells it like it is" and was a political outsider who would reign in all of the corruption in Washington...and plus he annoyed liberals as an added bonus. Oh, and Hillary Clinton was, like, public enemy #1 to any good God-fearing, red-blooded, America-loving patriotic conservative.

For me personally, my political and ideological change began occurring gradually during the first Trump administration. There was never a singular "flip the switch" moment or anything like that- more of a steady 'drip, drip' drip' type thing. In mid-2017 I changed careers and began doing what I currently do, which involves a ton of traveling all over the country, meeting and interacting with a ton of different people with different backgrounds. It was the first time in my life I had ever traveled extensively outside of North Carolina. So for the very first time, I was going to places that growing up I'd heard were big, scary, crime-infested liberal shitholes- places like New York City, San Francisco, Washington DC, Los Angeles, Atlanta, etc. And not only did I find that those places were actually absolutely amazing places with tons of different people and cultures, they were safe and....gasp...fun! It became a heck of a lot harder to believe that immigrants and brown people were lazy free-loaders when I'd see them working their asses off in hotels, in restaurants, on construction sites. It became a lot harder to think that LGBTQ people were icky when I started meeting them and enjoying their acquaintance or friendship. It became harder to think that poor people just needed to get a job when I saw them doing just that, working their tails off in thankless jobs for few wages.

At the same time as my world view was expanding and changing due to my newfound ability to actually get out and see the world, I started paying a lot closer attention to politics. And what I saw and heard when I did so was a whole bunch of lying, gaslighting, and shocking nastiness from the president of the United States- a guy I'd voted to elect. What I saw and heard was nothing at all like what I'd heard and read of Ronald Reagan, or George H.W. Bush, or Bill Clinton, or George W. Bush, or Barack Obama. And then I saw so many sycophants and enablers in the Republican Party at the national level- especially in Congress- who refused to reign him in. That started to really irritate me.

The straw that broke the camel's back for me was the way that Trump handled the onset of the pandemic in early 2020. Even by that time I had soured on him and the GOP tremendously, but had told myself that the economy was doing great, I was making a lot of money, things felt 'good' overall, and why upset the apple cart- I could probably hold my nose and vote for him again. Then the COVID-19 pandemic happened, and instead of being a leader through adversity, Trump was a coward and a liar who exacerbated the adversity and was the primary force that turned what should have been a unifying moment for our country to come together to help each other, into partisan nastiness. And the rest, as they say, is history. If one were to look back on my posting history on the old ZZLP, you'd see outright defense of Trump in 2017 turn to half-hearted defense of Trump in 2018, to general hand-waving dismissiveness about Trump in 2019 because the economy was so good, to disagreement in February and March 2020 with his rhetoric around the pandemic, to outright anger in April and May 2020, to full-fledged hatred in June after I watched him use the United States military to shoot rubber bullets and beat the hell out of protestors in Lafayette Square.

I am certain that my politics and my ideology would have changed and moderated tremendously even if Trump never happened. I have no doubt about it, in fact. That's what getting out and seeing the world and interacting with tons of different people and seeing tons of different places can do. But there's no question in my mind that the way the entire Republican Party has completely surrendered every single solitary aspect of classical conservatism to a conman criminal who is the exact antithesis of conservatism, is something I don't think I'll ever get over. I won't rule out voting for Republicans again in the future, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt it isn't happening at any time in which any vestiges of Trumpism remain. I don't identify as a Democrat or as a liberal, and I certainly do not like or agree with everything that the Democratic Party does, but I am more than happy to vote for them and with them these days as I believe that however flawed their methodologies or ideologies may be at times, they genuinely have a better vision and better goals and better policy aims for how I personally want the United States of America to be governed.

Sorry the the rambling and for the length!
This is an amazing post, and one of the best this young board has produced so far. Most any sentence here is worth vastly more than all the dull sentences in all the dull posts Zen has come up with. Just a thanks, here.
 
"Then the COVID-19 pandemic happened, and instead of being a leader through adversity, Trump was a coward and a liar who exacerbated the adversity and was the primary force that turned what should have been a unifying moment for our country to come together to help each other, into partisan nastiness."

THIS. It was an opportunity not simply squandered but where the negative was magnified tenfold by the nature of the cretin's so-called character.
 
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