I'm a former IC ZZL/P Mod = AMA

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What is the motivation to want to be a moderator?
I think most of us just want to try to give back to a community we enjoy.

For me, personally, I became a mod because of a joke that was misunderstood.

I originally volunteered to be a mod when IC was looking for folks because I thought it'd be funny and they wouldn't want me to be a mod. I was kinda surprised when they actually were willing to discuss it.

But I decided to do it because I thought maybe I could help out and be the kind of mod I'd wanted other mods to be. I did a decent job of that, i hope, but I also learned that some of the things I wanted mods to do just aren't feasible. There's only a certain amount of stupidity one can let go before things go a bit crazy at a community level.

Also, I like swinging the banhammer. It's just kinda fun. That was a major consideration in my initial decision. (I have a theory that message boards need a certain amount of bans to assuage the blood lust we all feel in our daily lives that get expressed on message boards. It's interesting how the board reacted to a ban of any reasonably significant poster, no matter how controversial or matter of fact the banning was. After a significant banning, there was always a refractory period for the majority of the board when things would calm down a bit before the craziness ramped back up.)
 
Since Snoop said we could ask anything, why does my daughter insist on trying to wash my cast iron skillets? I mean, she's my little girl and I love her so very much, but she needs to leave my frying pans alone.
She's trying to help, but she doesn't understand that cast iron is different than other pots and pans.

She loves you and wants to show it, but she's just not quite getting the bigger picture here.
 
What's the worst offense someone got banned for?
Huh, I hadn't really thought about it in those terms before. Realize that as an online message board, there's only so much one can do to get banned and, hopefully, can only do so much damage to anyone else.

The worst ones have probably been threats against others. You know a lot of them aren't really that serious, just a good amount of empty posturing, but it happens more than you might imagine. But the very few where it looks like someone making threats on a message board might actually be willing to do something in real life were the worst case scenario. It was truly rare that things on the message board felt like it might spill over into real life, but those very rare times were the worst of them.
 
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What's the worst offense someone got banned for?
On KUs site we have a troll that regularly posts explicit images/GIFs of pornography regularly. We have a troll who posts generally antisemitic or racial images/tweets that say things like the N-word or to kill Jews and such. Heil Hitler and the like.

To the point about how much 247 sucks, it would seem they can't ban this person(s) based on their IP or other factors which is something good forum software has had the ability to do for about 20 years now.
 
To the point about how much 247 sucks, it would seem they can't ban this person(s) based on their IP or other factors which is something good forum software has had the ability to do for about 20 years now.
With the wide availability of VPNs, IP bans don't actually do much to stop anyone anymore. Most folks who are trolling at that level will just use a VPN and switch up if they catch an IP ban.
 
Huh, I hadn't really thought about it in those terms before. Realize that as an online message board, there's only so much one can do to get banned and, hopefully, can only do so much damage to anyone else.

The worst ones have probably been threats against others. You know a lot of them aren't really that serious, just a good amount of empty posturing, but it happens more than you might imagine. But the very few where it looks like someone making threats on a message board might actually be willing to do something in real life were the worst case scenario. It was truly rare that things on the message board felt like it might spill over into real life, but those vary rare times were the worst of them.
Yup, those direct physical threats of violence against other posters were good for a two week ban for the people that made them as long as they were friends with the moderators.

In my case, the poster in question stated "I wish I knew where you worked so I could shoot some random people and then shoot you when you came to rescue them."
 
Snoop, how did your corporate overlords feel about you and others referring board members to this site during the last days of ZZLP?

Option 1: Get as much of that riff-raff out of here as possible;
Option 2: What are you doing ... those are/could be paying customers;
Option 3: Who cares ... the political board doesn't amount to a hill of beans; or
Option 4: None of the above.

Inquiring minds want to know.
 
while 247 has awful software it's still a shitton better than that fox sports next BS.
 
With the wide availability of VPNs, IP bans don't actually do much to stop anyone anymore. Most folks who are trolling at that level will just use a VPN and switch up if they catch an IP ban.
That's true but VPN's often are tied to specific IP trees themselves so you can just choose to block that VPN provider as a whole. Additionally, posters coming from VPNs can be flagged and placed in an approval queue, etc.

We have had people try to join that are using VPN's and things like Proton Mail or Fastmail and I would have to approve them so I shoot them a message asking for a few things and they never respond meaning they were likely a troll.
 
Why did you ban so many more conservatives than liberals instead of moderating without bias?
So, let's do this...

The "bias" that led to more conservatives being banned was built into the system, essentially around these rules:

1) No bigotry against protected classes
2) Claims should be buttressed with reasonable sources, upon request
3) No posting simply to disrupt discussion

In essence, the problem of moderating the ZZLP when it comes to political discussion is that Trumpism is a political movement built on (a) bigotry and (b) "alternative facts".

The rules, as written and as enforced, were much harder for conservatives to follow because it is largely conservatives who take political stands against entire groups of people due to innate characteristics. The modern Republican Party stands - on the whole - against the LGBTQ community, against immigration (unless from certain countries), and against women's rights on a grand scale. If Donald Trump were to have posted a standard campaign speech on the ZZLP, he would have broken a variety of IC-wide rules, and would have been banned barring a change or decision to have left the board. A major problem with conservatives on the ZZLP catching bans is that much of the modern Republican platform - as it exists - is little more than bigotry against minority groups simply for being minorities.

And note that not supporting those minority groups in their goals was not enough to get a ban. We allowed folks to make anti-immigrant or anti-LGBTQ posts without moderator interaction. The problem was that so many conservatives could not discuss LGBTQ issues, for example, without casting those in the LGBTQ community as perverts, or grooming children, or using slurs, or posting blatant falsehoods about LGBTQ people. And also note that rarely did one offense lead to a long-term ban, most bans were for a few days to let folks cool down and so we could have a discussion with the poster. The posters who got long-term bans were typically those who broke the rules multiple times and had gotten multiple bans for similar issues.

Citing arguments from reasonable sources was also an on-going issue, although one that faded in importannce of the last few years as a lot of folks either refused to post sources at all or their source was the Republican POTUS or nominee for POTUS. As the Republican Party has fallen wholesale into an adoption of "alternative facts" from right-wing sources, it became an issue to try to moderate when the sources folks were giving were either hate groups or were "fronts" for right-wing political groups tryiing to pose as information sources. If you're citing a white supremacist group as a supposedly legitimate source of information, then you probably shouldn't expect to get much latitude. And if you're citing a largely unknown "think tank" as a source when a 5-minute google search shows them to be nothing more than the mouthpiece of a white supremacist group, you probably shouldn't expect much more latitude. When there is an entire right-wing ecosystem dedicated to pumping out as much partisan BS under the guide of "news", it places those who use such BS sources in a problematic hole because they are citing bigoted sources and then are upset when they get in trouble for violating anti-bigotry rules.

Where a number of conservative posters got in trouble was when it became clear they weren't posting on the ZZLP to engage in actual discussion as much as to disrupt the already occurring discussion. Let me say that I'm sure it's tough coming to a board where the majority of posters disagree with you. But that doesn't excuse coming over and never actually addressng any of the posts that folks direct at you or ignoring any evidence presented to you in reply to you posts. So many conservative posters would come over to the ZZLP from the sports boards, post either an opinion or ask a question from their perspective, and then absolutely refuse to engage with the substance of any of the replies to them and their posts. They were willing to post their opinions for pages - often with slurs or insults towards entire groups of minorities - but would ignore any real attempt of the board to engage with their posts. Once it became obvious these posters weren't on the ZZLP to engage with other posters or arguments and were there to merely upset the apple cart, then the mods would engage them to either start taking the discussion seriously or to remain off of the ZZLP, as their style of posting is a form of trolling. Some would get pissed and go back to the sports boards, others would run right back to the ZZLP and start up again until they were banned. Of course, we know that for a small group of the most obnoxious sports board posters, having a ZZLP ban was seen as a badge of honor...which is defitionally an admission that they were there to troll and nothing more.

Those are the biggest reasons that far more conservatives were banned than liberals. In essense, the attributes that makes one a modern Republican pushes that person near the line of what IC was willing to tolerate around bigotry and posting factual information. The Republican Party became so extreme it essentially pushed a significant number of folks over the line that IC was willing to tolerate.
 
That's true but VPN's often are tied to specific IP trees themselves so you can just choose to block that VPN provider as a whole. Additionally, posters coming from VPNs can be flagged and placed in an approval queue, etc.

We have had people try to join that are using VPN's and things like Proton Mail or Fastmail and I would have to approve them so I shoot them a message asking for a few things and they never respond meaning they were likely a troll.
The problem when you try to block IP trees is that you start taking out folks who haven't done anything wrong because they're using the same VPN.

But I agree with you that there are things that 247 could have done to assist with the troll issue like forbidding Proton Mail or Fastmail registrations. I think that part goes back to the idea that 247 doesn't really care about the message boards that much at all and aren't willing to put much effort into making them more than basically functional.
 
That's true but VPN's often are tied to specific IP trees themselves so you can just choose to block that VPN provider as a whole. Additionally, posters coming from VPNs can be flagged and placed in an approval queue, etc.

We have had people try to join that are using VPN's and things like Proton Mail or Fastmail and I would have to approve them so I shoot them a message asking for a few things and they never respond meaning they were likely a troll.
Hey Rock, maybe there's a chance to hire Joey Powell and/or Sherrell McMillan away from 247/IC?
 
Yup, those direct physical threats of violence against other posters were good for a two week ban for the people that made them as long as they were friends with the moderators.

In my case, the poster in question stated "I wish I knew where you worked so I could shoot some random people and then shoot you when you came to rescue them."
Did you report this post (or PM) to the moderators?

Because I have no recollection of that kind of threat going unaddressed. Typically physical threats were dealt with very harshly and the kind of post you mention would have actually been pushed up the ladder above my level to be dealt with.
 
So, let's do this...

The "bias" that led to more conservatives being banned was built into the system, essentially around these rules:

1) No bigotry against protected classes
2) Claims should be buttressed with reasonable sources, upon request
3) No posting simply to disrupt discussion

In essence, the problem of moderating the ZZLP when it comes to political discussion is that Trumpism is a political movement built on (a) bigotry and (b) "alternative facts".

The rules, as written and as enforced, were much harder for conservatives to follow because it is largely conservatives who take political stands against entire groups of people due to innate characteristics. The modern Republican Party stands - on the whole - against the LGBTQ community, against immigration (unless from certain countries), and against women's rights on a grand scale. If Donald Trump were to have posted a standard campaign speech on the ZZLP, he would have broken a variety of IC-wide rules, and would have been banned barring a change or decision to have left the board. A major problem with conservatives on the ZZLP catching bans is that much of the modern Republican platform - as it exists - is little more than bigotry against minority groups simply for being minorities.

And note that not supporting those minority groups in their goals was not enough to get a ban. We allowed folks to make anti-immigrant or anti-LGBTQ posts without moderator interaction. The problem was that so many conservatives could not discuss LGBTQ issues, for example, without casting those in the LGBTQ community as perverts, or grooming children, or using slurs, or posting blatant falsehoods about LGBTQ people. And also note that rarely did one offense lead to a long-term ban, most bans were for a few days to let folks cool down and so we could have a discussion with the poster. The posters who got long-term bans were typically those who broke the rules multiple times and had gotten multiple bans for similar issues.

Citing arguments from reasonable sources was also an on-going issue, although one that faded in importannce of the last few years as a lot of folks either refused to post sources at all or their source was the Republican POTUS or nominee for POTUS. As the Republican Party has fallen wholesale into an adoption of "alternative facts" from right-wing sources, it became an issue to try to moderate when the sources folks were giving were either hate groups or were "fronts" for right-wing political groups tryiing to pose as information sources. If you're citing a white supremacist group as a supposedly legitimate source of information, then you probably shouldn't expect to get much latitude. And if you're citing a largely unknown "think tank" as a source when a 5-minute google search shows them to be nothing more than the mouthpiece of a white supremacist group, you probably shouldn't expect much more latitude. When there is an entire right-wing ecosystem dedicated to pumping out as much partisan BS under the guide of "news", it places those who use such BS sources in a problematic hole because they are citing bigoted sources and then are upset when they get in trouble for violating anti-bigotry rules.

Where a number of conservative posters got in trouble was when it became clear they weren't posting on the ZZLP to engage in actual discussion as much as to disrupt the already occurring discussion. Let me say that I'm sure it's tough coming to a board where the majority of posters disagree with you. But that doesn't excuse coming over and never actually addressng any of the posts that folks direct at you or ignoring any evidence presented to you in reply to you posts. So many conservative posters would come over to the ZZLP from the sports boards, post either an opinion or ask a question from their perspective, and then absolutely refuse to engage with the substance of any of the replies to them and their posts. They were willing to post their opinions for pages - often with slurs or insults towards entire groups of minorities - but would ignore any real attempt of the board to engage with their posts. Once it became obvious these posters weren't on the ZZLP to engage with other posters or arguments and were there to merely upset the apple cart, then the mods would engage them to either start taking the discussion seriously or to remain off of the ZZLP, as their style of posting is a form of trolling. Some would get pissed and go back to the sports boards, others would run right back to the ZZLP and start up again until they were banned. Of course, we know that for a small group of the most obnoxious sports board posters, having a ZZLP ban was seen as a badge of honor...which is defitionally an admission that they were there to troll and nothing more.

Those are the biggest reasons that far more conservatives were banned than liberals. In essense, the attributes that makes one a modern Republican pushes that person near the line of what IC was willing to tolerate around bigotry and posting factual information. The Republican Party became so extreme it essentially pushed a significant number of folks over the line that IC was willing to tolerate.
I'd also add to this that not one single, solitary conservative poster was EVER banned for simply being conservative, or for espousing conservative ideology. Not one, not ever. Nobody was ever banned for advocating for low taxes, or for strong national defense, or for strong border security, or for less economic regulation, or for less environmental regulation, or for fiscal restraint, or for reducing social safety net benefits, or for desiring smaller government in general. Again, not one single person was ever banned for being a conservative. Every conservative that was banned was banned for being a repeated insubordinate asshole. Take it from me, an asshole who spent the majority of my time on the eight-year history of the ZZLP as a conservative before completely giving up on the unimaginable scam that modern American conservatism as become.
 
So, let's do this...

The "bias" that led to more conservatives being banned was built into the system, essentially around these rules:

1) No bigotry against protected classes
2) Claims should be buttressed with reasonable sources, upon request
3) No posting simply to disrupt discussion

In essence, the problem of moderating the ZZLP when it comes to political discussion is that Trumpism is a political movement built on (a) bigotry and (b) "alternative facts".

The rules, as written and as enforced, were much harder for conservatives to follow because it is largely conservatives who take political stands against entire groups of people due to innate characteristics. The modern Republican Party stands - on the whole - against the LGBTQ community, against immigration (unless from certain countries), and against women's rights on a grand scale. If Donald Trump were to have posted a standard campaign speech on the ZZLP, he would have broken a variety of IC-wide rules, and would have been banned barring a change or decision to have left the board. A major problem with conservatives on the ZZLP catching bans is that much of the modern Republican platform - as it exists - is little more than bigotry against minority groups simply for being minorities.

And note that not supporting those minority groups in their goals was not enough to get a ban. We allowed folks to make anti-immigrant or anti-LGBTQ posts without moderator interaction. The problem was that so many conservatives could not discuss LGBTQ issues, for example, without casting those in the LGBTQ community as perverts, or grooming children, or using slurs, or posting blatant falsehoods about LGBTQ people. And also note that rarely did one offense lead to a long-term ban, most bans were for a few days to let folks cool down and so we could have a discussion with the poster. The posters who got long-term bans were typically those who broke the rules multiple times and had gotten multiple bans for similar issues.

Citing arguments from reasonable sources was also an on-going issue, although one that faded in importannce of the last few years as a lot of folks either refused to post sources at all or their source was the Republican POTUS or nominee for POTUS. As the Republican Party has fallen wholesale into an adoption of "alternative facts" from right-wing sources, it became an issue to try to moderate when the sources folks were giving were either hate groups or were "fronts" for right-wing political groups tryiing to pose as information sources. If you're citing a white supremacist group as a supposedly legitimate source of information, then you probably shouldn't expect to get much latitude. And if you're citing a largely unknown "think tank" as a source when a 5-minute google search shows them to be nothing more than the mouthpiece of a white supremacist group, you probably shouldn't expect much more latitude. When there is an entire right-wing ecosystem dedicated to pumping out as much partisan BS under the guide of "news", it places those who use such BS sources in a problematic hole because they are citing bigoted sources and then are upset when they get in trouble for violating anti-bigotry rules.

Where a number of conservative posters got in trouble was when it became clear they weren't posting on the ZZLP to engage in actual discussion as much as to disrupt the already occurring discussion. Let me say that I'm sure it's tough coming to a board where the majority of posters disagree with you. But that doesn't excuse coming over and never actually addressng any of the posts that folks direct at you or ignoring any evidence presented to you in reply to you posts. So many conservative posters would come over to the ZZLP from the sports boards, post either an opinion or ask a question from their perspective, and then absolutely refuse to engage with the substance of any of the replies to them and their posts. They were willing to post their opinions for pages - often with slurs or insults towards entire groups of minorities - but would ignore any real attempt of the board to engage with their posts. Once it became obvious these posters weren't on the ZZLP to engage with other posters or arguments and were there to merely upset the apple cart, then the mods would engage them to either start taking the discussion seriously or to remain off of the ZZLP, as their style of posting is a form of trolling. Some would get pissed and go back to the sports boards, others would run right back to the ZZLP and start up again until they were banned. Of course, we know that for a small group of the most obnoxious sports board posters, having a ZZLP ban was seen as a badge of honor...which is defitionally an admission that they were there to troll and nothing more.

Those are the biggest reasons that far more conservatives were banned than liberals. In essense, the attributes that makes one a modern Republican pushes that person near the line of what IC was willing to tolerate around bigotry and posting factual information. The Republican Party became so extreme it essentially pushed a significant number of folks over the line that IC was willing to tolerate.
So why were you willing to let posters you agreed with break the rules for so long while "enjoying using the ban hammer", as you noted, for people you didn't agree with?

Did you consider yourself a good mod because you encouraged homogeneous viewpoints or did you really believe you were sanctioning posters you didn't agree with because they broke the rules more often?
 
Did you report this post (or PM) to the moderators?

Because I have no recollection of that kind of threat going unaddressed. Typically physical threats were dealt with very harshly and the kind of post you mention would have actually been pushed up the ladder above my level to be dealt with.
Oh yeah, I reported it. I still have the screenshots.
 
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