Immigration Issues and Reform

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One thing we know for sure is that all illegal immigrants have committed crimes, because them living here is, by definition, a crime.
 
Enigma94 said:
The whole idea behind voting for someone because they talk tough but don't worry they won't actually do what they say is mind boggling to me.
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Right? Why would anyone be interested in just hearing someone say things, but not actually do them. And then, admit that if they do those things it would be terrible practice.
 
Back when I was a Republican and a 2016 Trump voter, I used to believe all of that typical Republican tropes about how immigrants are violent criminals, lazy good for nothing animals who are here to mooch off of our society, wanting to steal jobs from white people, how we should send all of them “back to where they came from,” etc. and then I actually started to read and learn from economists, migration scientists, and actual experts, and lo and behold I figured out that those people are right and I was wrong, and I changed my views. I decided that I like being the beneficiary of the greatest economy in the history of the world, a substantial portion of which is fueled by immigrant labor, and figured out that I was being lied to by Republicans for years. And I really, really, REALLY fucking hate being lied to.
 
HeelYeah2012 said:
One thing we know for sure is that all illegal immigrants have committed crimes, because them living here is, by definition, a crime.
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So does anyone going over the speed limit, but I'm willing to look the other way on that because it'd be dumb not to.

Let's talk about once they're here. Are they a net positive or negative to our society economically, culturally, etc? What do you disagree with, on them actually living here and contributing to?
 
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CFord, you are doing yeomans work here today!!! I can’t begin to tell you how helpful all these articles will be in my conversations that will happen soon with some family members and acquaintances. I’ve made these points in the past, but without this level of evidence.

Thank you.
 
CLT Heel said:
CFord, you are doing yeomans work here today!!! I can’t begin to tell you how helpful all these articles will be in my conversations that will happen soon with some family members and acquaintances. I’ve made these points in the past, but without this level of evidence.

Thank you.
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You’re welcome! Just trying to do my small part to help educate the ZZLP electorate!
 
CLT Heel said:
CFord, you are doing yeomans work here today!!! I can’t begin to tell you how helpful all these articles will be in my conversations that will happen soon with some family members and acquaintances. I’ve made these points in the past, but without this level of evidence.

Thank you.
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Best of luck, but prepare to remain frustrated.

I’ve shared similar data in the past with MAGA’s in my life, and I’ve gotten a shoulder shrug and stuff along the lines of “Doesn’t feel like that’s true”. I even had one tell me “Trump wouldn’t lie about something like this”.

I’ve pretty much given up at this point.
 
I think I'm less trying to change someones mind (because that will only happen if they're open to it) and just trying to understand the logic. Which I am finding difficult to understand. I want to listen to anyone's concerns though, and if it makes sense, then I get it. Just make it make sense.
 
I remember during the Bush administration, he was rattling sabers about immigrants and how we needed to criminalize it and get super tough on it.

Then he went to a meeting with agribusiness leaders in San Diego, and we never heard about the issue again.
 
HeelYeah2012 said:
One thing we know for sure is that all illegal immigrants have committed crimes, because them living here is, by definition, a crime.
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I confess that I committed a crime yesterday. I sped 40mph in a 35 mph zone, and I did nothing to contribute to our economy yesterday.
 
Think it’s hard to argue with a straight face, or with any desire for credibility, that Republicans are “winning on immigration” when the Republican candidate for president was single-handedly responsible for (and boasted about!) blocking the toughest **bipartisan** immigration reform package in generations that was initially brought to table by a staunch Republican senator from a deep red Republican state, that involved the Democrats essentially making every single concession they could’ve possibly made to the point that it would have been politically disastrous within their own party.

Think it’s also difficult to argue that Republicans are winning on immigration when leaders of the Arizona Republican Party- you know, the state of Arizona that actually has a border with Mexico!- endorsed Kamala Harris.

Far be it for me to interrupt or interfere with an enemy that is in the process of destroying itself, but I don’t see the Republican Party winning on anything right now other than nominating someone with the bigliest amount of felony convictions ever to grace a presidential ticket!
 
CFordUNC said:
Hell yeah, let’s get this party started!

Immigrants are significantly less likely to commit crimes than the U.S.-born​

Study finds over a 150-year period, immigrants have never been incarcerated at a greater rate than those born in the United States

news.northwestern.edu

Immigrants are significantly less likely to commit crimes than the U.S.-born

A study co-led by Northwestern University economist Elisa Jácome provides the first historical comparison of incarceration rates of immigrants to U.S.-born citizens.<br />
news.northwestern.edu news.northwestern.edu
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You silly rational people and your data.
The fear and irrationality are real, just ask Jessy waters he reported that the Mexican government is arming migrants for the trip to America. According to Trump they will just release all of their prisioners and point them to America.
:censored::mad:
 
HeelYeah2012 said:
One thing we know for sure is that all illegal immigrants have committed crimes, because them living here is, by definition, a crime.
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Is that really the crime that trump is using to stoke fear? He constantly calls them rapist and murders.
 
HeelYeah2012 said:
This is a great article that explains how Republicans are winning the war on illegal immigration and they’ve got the Democrats backtracking to try and save face

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Does this explain anywhere the "why" though? Not why they are winning on the issue, but why this is such an issue?

Is it truly because Republicans think Hispanic folks are poisoning the blood of white America? is that truly what it boils down to?

The data proves, it can't be crime, it can't be job losses, they are a net positive in nearly every way. What is the grand issue is all I'm asking for.
 
TarSpiel said:
I remember during the Bush administration, he was rattling sabers about immigrants and how we needed to criminalize it and get super tough on it.

Then he went to a meeting with agribusiness leaders in San Diego, and we never heard about the issue again.
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Agriculture is the biggest lobby in DC. I was surprised to find it was bigger than defense.
 
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