India Pakistan looming war



Hopefully this kind of tit for tat claim/counterclaim suggests that we may see more skirmishes but an off-ramp for further escalation (yes they attacked us but we got our pound of flesh sounds more like the usual cadence of this long-simmering conflict than the recent build up to the Indian strike, which was more strident).
 
nycfan said:


Hopefully this kind of tit for tat claim/counterclaim suggests that we may see more skirmishes but an off-ramp for further escalation (yes they attacked us but we got our pound of flesh sounds more like the usual cadence of this long-simmering conflict than the recent build up to the Indian strike, which was more strident).
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both sides are full of claims, but it looks like one of the downed jets is one of their oldest


 
This is one of the many reasons we need to resist the push by conservatives to break the barrier between church and state in the US. Religious nationalism is a dangerous thing. Modi has used it to create a lot of power for himself in India.

While what he's done with that power has not been all bad, it comes at a cost of growing anger amongst the minority population... and there are always bad actors out there who will use that anger to their advantage... especially when you mix extreme poverty into the equation.
 
Something to keep on the radar. Hopefully, a little tit for tat acts as a pressure valve.

One thing I didn't know (maybe someone can chime in) is that there's a growing sentiment in India (even if it's a minority) that Pakistan should be taken back in by India. I thought that issue had been settled long ago...surprised to see hear that.
 
People have forgotten the cost of expansionism. Alliances are shuffling and the fires of long held feuds are being sparked again.
 
CRHeel94 said:
Something to keep on the radar. Hopefully, a little tit for tat acts as a pressure valve.

One thing I didn't know (maybe someone can chime in) is that there's a growing sentiment in India (even if it's a minority) that Pakistan should be taken back in by India. I thought that issue had been settled long ago...surprised to see hear that.
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I don't know enough about how the sides currently feel, but my Indian buddies from school always claimed that there would never be peace until the borders the British created were abolished. If you add Pakistan, Bangladesh, and India together, it's 2+ billion people.
 
Batt Boy said:
I don't know enough about how the sides currently feel, but my Indian buddies from school always claimed that there would never be peace until the borders the British created were abolished. If you add Pakistan, Bangladesh, and India together, it's 2+ billion people.
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The partition was a grisly but historically fascinating time. There was a mutual ethnic cleansing, basically, with both sides engaged in atrocities against the other (which is pretty rare- usually such cleansing is pretty one-sided).

I'm not sure you would get the same hostility to these British borders from Pakistanis or Bangladeshis. The Muslim population of this new "India" would be about 1/3 that of the Hindu population, and with the BJP ascendant, I have very serious concerns about how that population would be treated.
 
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StrangePackage said:
The partition was a grisly but historically fascinating time. There was a mutual ethnic cleansing, basically, with both sides engaged in atrocities against the other (which is pretty rare- usually such cleansing is pretty one-sided).

I'm not sure you would get the same hostility to these British borders from Pakistanis or Bangladeshi. The Muslim population of this new "India" would be about 1/3 that of the Hindu population, and with the BJP ascendant, I have very serious concerns about how that population would be treated.
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Modi has built/ consolidated his power by stoking the fires of religious tension. I'm no expert, but now seems like a terrible time to try and reunite the countries. I've heard a ton of stories from the Indian side of people having to leave all their earthly possessions behind as the fled Pakistan for their lives as the boarders were being closed. I'm sure plenty of Pakistanis have similar stories.
 
StrangePackage said:
The partition was a grisly but historically fascinating time. There was a mutual ethnic cleansing, basically, with both sides engaged in atrocities against the other (which is pretty rare- usually such cleansing is pretty one-sided).

I'm not sure you would get the same hostility to these British borders from Pakistanis or Bangladeshi. The Muslim population of this new "India" would be about 1/3 that of the Hindu population, and with the BJP ascendant, I have very serious concerns about how that population would be treated.
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quick Wikipedia looks seems to indicate the Pakistani intellectuals are leading the charge and it's the Indian's who are against it. Or course Lashkar-e-Taiba wants all India under muslim rule.

en.wikipedia.org

Indian reunification - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

 
Batt Boy said:
I don't know enough about how the sides currently feel, but my Indian buddies from school always claimed that there would never be peace until the borders the British created were abolished. If you add Pakistan, Bangladesh, and India together, it's 2+ billion people.
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Any idea if they want British India pre 1947, which includes india, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and I think Myanmar? Or do they want India pre British East India company which was like 1000 different principalities and a few bigger entities with various levels of independence? I guess another way to ask that is do Indians consider themselves Indian or are they much more provincial and hate the guy in the next valley?
 
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gtyellowjacket said:
Do they want British India pre 1947, which includes india, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and I think Myanmar? Or do they want India pre British East India company which was like 1000 different principalities and a few bigger entities with various levels of independence? I guess another way to ask that is do Indians consider themselves Indian or are they much more provincial and hate the guy in the next valley?
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"Indians" is around 1.4B people, so there is no real way to say how they collectively see themselves. From what I know of upper middle class Indians in professional jobs, there is a pretty big sense of pride in being Indian. But when you get to the small village types, I have no real clue. There is a lot of the old caste system still at play, though it's a thing nobody talks about these days. Funny enough, Modi took an unexpected beating int he last election, losing his own home province to a guy who ran by using the caste card to trump Modi's religion card.
 
Batt Boy said:
quick Wikipedia looks seems to indicate the Pakistani intellectuals are leading the charge and it's the Indian's who are against it.
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That's because India is much richer than Pakistan. The economic cost of integrating Pakistan and Bangladesh into the Indian economy would dwarf East/west Germany, probably dwarf squared but I'm not sure about that.

I would imagine that India is not too keen on the idea. Bangladesh would be economically difficult but the GDPs of the two countries are relatively similar (per capita). Pakistan is a third lower than both.

I knew a guy whose family had deep military and intelligence ties. Thus was his family exiled at some point, like 75-85% of people who have held such positions in Pakistan. He used to say (attributing to his uncles but he agreed) that Pakistan isn't just a failed state; it's an organized criminal enterprise, and not all that organized. So I'd imagine plenty of Pakistanis see union with India as a way of smashing the corruption of their government. I mean, India is no paragon of good governance, but compared to Pakistan . . .
 
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