Iran Catch-All | IRAN WAR - US to BLOCKADE Strait

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This is all happening for one reason and one reason only.

The prior deal with Iran had Obama's name on it.

That simply ate away at the narcissists rapidly diminishing brain function until he was forced by his own ineptness and stupidity to make the worst foreign policy decision maybe of our lifetimes.
 
HandsonFire said:
Sorry I wasn’t trying to assign positions, but I don’t see where the wiggle room is. Pretty basic positions on both sides. What more could have been gained diplomatically. I don’t think Iran is going to cave on any of their positions. Are they going to give up the pursuit of nuclear weapons? Give up tolling the strait?

The answer is agree to their terms and go home.

It’s a big loss. That’s on Trump but still sucks for the US.
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The point of negotiations is to find a middle ground between two groups who don't inherently agree.

it is likely that Trump will not get most of what he wants. He is an idiot and doesn't have any clue what a real outcome to this should look like. Of course, that's why he started it in the first place, because he's so stupid he was blind to all the ways this would almost inevitably go wrong.

I don't think Iran wants the long term responsibility for the Strait of Hormuz. I do think they want nuclear weapons, but I think they can be incentivized to at least significantly delay those ambitions. (They agreed to do so before via the JCPOA, yes?)

We can likely get back to those two basic positions, but it's going to cost us a lot because Trump acted a fool and started a war he couldn't win. So, we're likely going to pay out of the ass if we can find a way back to opening the Strait and curtailing Iran's nuclear desires.

We don't have to "agree to their terms" wholesale, but we do need to negotiate with (A) a recognition that they have us over a barrel in the short term and (B) a recognition that we pretty much are the ones responsible for the war. We have room to negotiate, but we're in a piss poor spot and there is little that can be done about it.

I get that you have a knee-jerk reaction to the US taking a loss on this, but there's really no way forward to an true win. The best we can likely do at this point is getting back to some sort of previous detente, recognizing we're going to pay significantly for having been the one to fuck it up initially.
 
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nycfan said:
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The idea that Trump has "miscalculated" is silly., that implies that he has the ability to do an actual calculation and he's simply misunderstood an input or two.

The truth here is that Trump is so psychologically fucked up that he can't comprehend that he can't come out of this the winner. He's not a rational person that you can show him his math errors and he'll go, "Oh, that's what's wrong here!" with a look of relief on his face. For this to get solved, Trump is going to have to be sidelined by actual functional adults. I doubt those adults will be American because there are no longer any American adults who have the power and the inclination to stand up to Trump, but we do have to hope that the international adults step in soon to fix what our toddler of a president has broken.
 
ZenMode said:
You forgot about the JOOOOOOOOS!

It's clearly their fault, first and foremost.
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You really need to quit that shit. I've honestly never called for a ban of anyone on any message board, but I am damned close to asking @Rock to do that with you over this shit you do here. Nobody on this board is antisemitic. Nobody. When people criticize Netanyahu or Israel, it has nothing to do with Judaism.

Stop that shit.
 
nycfan said:
So that went well

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He's quite literally having a mental and emotional meltdown before our very eyes. This entire tweet basically boils down to - "We blew up Iran and have seemingly destroyed their military and we're clearly stronger than they are, but they still won't give up and cry uncle and play nice with me! This isn't going the way it's supposed to - why don't they just give up? They better let go of the Strait or else! Or else I'll...I"ll send in our navy and blockade the strait too! That'll show you bastards!"

That tweet isn't a real policy statement - it's the temper tantrum of a child that can't get his way. I can't wait for his next tweet where he once again goes on a temper tantrum about how all of our worthless allies won't help him to fix this mess that he got himself into, and threatens them as well as Iran. We're all living in the Twilight Zone at this point.
 
SnoopRob said:
The point of negotiations is to find a middle ground between two groups who don't inherently agree.

it is likely that Trump will not get most of what he wants. He is an idiot and doesn't have any clue what a real outcome to this should look like. Of course, that's why he started it in the first place, because he's so stupid he was blind to all the ways this would almost inevitably go wrong.

I don't think Iran wants the long term responsibility for the Strait of Hormuz. I do think they want nuclear weapons, but I think they can be incentivized to at least significantly delay those ambitions. (They agreed to do so before via the JCPOA, yes?)

We can likely get back to those two basic positions, but it's going to cost us a lot because Trump acted a fool and started a war he couldn't win. So, we're likely going to pay out of the ass if we can find a way back to opening the Strait and curtailing Iran's nuclear desires.

We don't have to "agree to their terms" wholesale, but we do need to negotiation with (A) a recognition that they have us over a barrel in the short term and (B) a recognition that we pretty much are the ones responsible for the war. We have room to negotiate, but we're in a piss poor spot and there is little that can be done about it.

I get that you have a knee-jerk reaction to the US taking a loss on this, but there's really no way forward to a true win. The best we can likely do at this point is getting back to some sort of previous detente, recognizing we're going to pay significantly for having been the one to fuck it up initially.
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I would have loved to be a fly on the wall in the negotiations yesterday to see what they could possibly discuss for 21 hours.
 
1moretimeagain said:
Trump must have season tickets to the UFC. He’s there again tonight.
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Remember that time Biden went to the beach and the right lost their ever-loving minds over it? Fox News got a good week or two of stories out of it saying how out of touch it was for him to be going to the beach while "the world was on the cusp of ending."

Of course that was the Fox News mantra for Biden's entire presidency, while everything is roses with Trump.
 
Meatloaf=Steak said:
Did Vietnam and previous Middle East wars not teach us anything? Boots on the ground is nothing more than a way to kill more Americans soldiers. It's insanity this day and age especially.
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True. Too many Americans simply haven't learned the lessons of the past when it comes to smaller and militarily weaker nations - just because they're smaller and weaker doesn't mean that they still can't hurt you in a lot of ways, and the best way to deal with them is to avoid fighting them if at all possible. Vietnam, the Iraq War, the Afghanistan War, and our brief but disastrous interventions in Lebanon (1982 - 241 Marines killed by a suicide truck bomber, after which Reagan pulled our forces out), and Somalia (1993 - 18 American troops dead, some dead US troops dragged through the streets, we leave Somalia) - all of these should have shown our government that we cannot simply force our will onto unwilling smaller countries, even with our superior military forces.

And yet here we are again - and this war may well be the most inexcusable and idiotic of them all.
 
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Mulberry Heel said:
True. Too many Americans simply have't learned the lessons of the past when it comes to smaller and militarily weaker nations - just because they're smaller and weaker doesn't mean that they still can't hurt you in a lot of ways, and the best way to deal with them is to avoid fighting them if at all possible. Vietnam, the Iraq War, the Afghanistan War, and our brief but disastrous interventions in Lebanon (1982 - 241 Marines killed by a suicide truck bomber, after which Reagan pulled our forces out), and Somalia (1993 - 18 American troops dead, some dead US troops dragged through the streets, we leave Somalia) - all of these should have shown our government that we cannot simply force our will onto unwilling smaller countries, even with our superior military forces.

And yet here we are again - and this war may well be the most inexcusable and idiotic of them all.
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I would agree with everything but Afghanistan. I do think we stayed way too long and I think we did a terrible job separating the case against Taliban vs Al Qaeda, but you kill kill 4,500 Americans, you're going to bring down the hellfire. And I'm a pacifist.
 
nycfan said:
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As I said, Vance is now officially Trump's whipping boy. Trump has nothing but contempt for him, doesn't care about boosting his chances of winning in 2028, and will likely use him as a convenient scapegoat for this war with his base. Maybe the poor guy can somewhere find a sofa to hump and cuddle with today. Or he can call Erika for some emotional support.
 
Iran is notorious for AI videos, so a salt truck of salt warranted here:



Trump Admin claims it sent vessels through and they turned around just to prove there were no mines.
 
wmheel1287 said:
You really need to quit that shit. I've honestly never called for a ban of anyone on any message board, but I am damned close to asking @Rock to do that with you over this shit you do here. Nobody on this board is antisemitic. Nobody. When people criticize Netanyahu or Israel, it has nothing to do with Judaism.

Stop that shit.
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Sounds good. You can ask Rock to band me and then I will start asking him to pan everyone that has called me a racist, transfo, homophobe, xenophobe, etc.

W

Off-Topic Post in thread 'Black History Month'

ZenMode said:
If there's no negroid race, what human group are you referring to? How do you distinguish between members of the group and members outside the group?
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My response is self explanatory for anyone not being intentionally obtuse or racist.
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pspsps said:
I will wait to determine how I feel about this until a Trump whisperer crawls out of the miasma to tell me what Trump really means and the 4D geopolitical chess he’s really playing.
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More likely any MAGAs left posting on this thread will just do like calla and call you a Muslim-loving anti-American traitor because you aren't behind our glorious leader 100% in this heroic war effort to open up a strait that wasn't closed until we started the war and to destroy a nuclear program that Trump claims that we've totally destroyed at least twice. Because the real problem isn't with Trump, it's with all of us worthless liberals for daring to oppose him and not wave the flag and yell "Americuh Fuck Yeah!" like all Real MAGA Americans do.
 
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