Iran Catch-All | IRAN WAR

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lawtig02 said:
For our own sake, I hope retribution for massive civil rights violations doesn't become a recognized basis to bomb the shit out of another country.
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An oppressive Government-so bomb schools
(I get your point , mine is a little different!)
 
Looks like the war "strategy" has devolved to Israel taking out individual members of the Iranian leadership and the US dropping massive numbers of bombs on targets around the country, right now focusing on missile and drone capabilities near Hormuz. The problem with the latter is these capabilities can be replaced almost as soon as they are destroyed, and the geography of the region makes it all but impossible for us to cut off Iran's supply lines, especially from Russia. The red line here is a major trade route called the International North-South Transport Corridor (NSTC), and we can't control it without boots on the ground.
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finesse said:
You have to be lying because even you can't be this mistaken. There was no present nuclear threat. Our actions have guaranteed that they will now go full tilt in pursuing one. The largest purveyor of Islamic terrorism are the Wahabists originating in Saudi Arabia. You just might want to check the citizenship on the (/11 personnel. A fair as civil rights violations, you're being a complete poseur and fool. Civil rights are literally up to the individual nation and not America's business. It's not like you give a shit since you freely support Americans' civil rights being overrun every day.

So out of those half dozen, what have we actually done, how much has it cost in human suffering and money and what did we get that was worth it?
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One is Sunni and one is Shia. They are both terrible - but Iran is a nation state and Saudia Arabia isn't officially sponsoring ISIS. So, there is a distinction that is important to note. Iran IS the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world and without Iran there would likely have not been an October 7th, an invasion of Gaza, and a dismantling of Hezbollah...and of course it is uncertain what Hezbollah and Hamas would even resemble without Iranian support. I think it is somewhat glib to declare Iran will "go full tilt in pursing [a nuclear weapon]" now since we don't really know what the net result of this conflict will be vis a vis the Iranian regime.

The issue here is that we apparently went into this conflict with little forethought or planning regarding the goals, objectives, and means to achieve both. And now we are stuck in something of a short lived stalemate that has the entire world by the proverbial balls. My problem isn't with trying to topple this terrible regime - it's that we seem to have no idea how to accomplish that goal or even if that goal exists in the Trump administration. It's such a fucking shit show.
 
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p5mmr9 said:
One is Sunni and one is Shia. They are both terrible - but Iran is a nation state and Saudia Arabia isn't officially sponsoring ISIS. So, there is a distinction that is important to note. Iran IS the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world and without Iran there would likely have not been an October 7th, an invasion of Gaza, and a dismantling of Hezbollah...and of course it is uncertain what Hezbollah and Hamas would even resemble without Iranian support. I think it is somewhat glib to declare Iran will "go full tilt in pursing [a nuclear weapon]" now since we don't really know what the net result of this conflict will be vis a vis the Iranian regime. I'm guessing both of you mean "human rights" - since Civil Rights are not relevant to this discussion. Regardless, the issue here is that we apparently went into this conflict with little forethought or planning regarding the goals, objectives, and means to achieve both. And now we are stuck in something of a short lived stalemate that has the entire world by the proverbial balls. My problem isn't with trying to topple this terrible regime - it's that we seem to have no idea how to accomplish that goal or even if that goal exists in the Trump administration. It's such a fucking shit show.
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Agreed, you don’t get credit for having “good” high-level reasons for starting a conflict with Iran (like destroying a terrorist network) if the planning was so bad it turns the entire planet into a giant shitshow.
Time will tell how this all works out. I’m hoping for the best.
 
That they aren't nearly the threat to world stability as at least one other country, and our policy and rhetoric is terribly skewed w/r/t these two entities. 'Largest state sponsor of terrorism' is a trope kicked around to justify our aggressive actions while the real 'largest state sponsor of terrorism' gets treated with kid gloves.
 
ZenMode said:
Trump hasn't been clear about what the goals are. It seems like half a dozen things have been mentioned.

If you're talking about the reasons for our actions in Iran, there are several. Stopping their nuclear program, weakening the largest purveyor of terrorism in the world and retribution for massive civil rights violations to name a few.
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Retribution for civil rights violations is justification?

Cool. When do I get to start murdering ICE agents?
 
wmheel1287 said:
Retribution for civil rights violations is justification?

Cool. When do I get to start murdering ICE agents?
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The difference between the ICE situation and the Iran situation is that there is a system in place to address civil rights violations in the US.
 
Gmonet said:
That they aren't nearly the threat to world stability as at least one other country, and our policy and rhetoric is terribly skewed w/r/t these two entities. 'Largest state sponsor of terrorism' is a trope kicked around to justify our aggressive actions while the real 'largest state sponsor of terrorism' gets treated with kid gloves.
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I don't think anyone here is going to argue Russia isn't a bigger threat to global stability...nor is anyone even suggesting otherwise. Nor is anyone defending the Trump administration's handling of the invasion of Ukraine.
 
p5mmr9 said:
Iran IS the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world and without Iran there would likely have not been an October 7th, an invasion of Gaza, and a dismantling of Hezbollah...and of course it is uncertain what Hezbollah and Hamas would even resemble without Iranian support. I think it is somewhat glib to declare Iran will "go full tilt in pursing [a nuclear weapon]" now since we don't really know what the net result of this conflict will be vis a vis the Iranian regime.
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Without Israel there also would've been no Oct 7th, no Gazan invasion, probably less death and destruction in Lebanon right now. No 9/11 (if Al Queda was simply angry about "westerners" they would've gone after Europe instead of USA). It feels like the Middle East instability and conflict always involves Israel at the center.

I'm not saying we should be bombing Israel (though is is only 10 million vs 90 million Iranians). My point is that Iran's sponsorship of terrorism doesn't seem to have much impact on continental USA or even areas outside of the middle east.

Iran funds groups that have been wrecking havoc all over the middle east and red sea, but at present it seems only Hezbollah is involved in the current "War". Houthis are sitting this one out, Syrian militias too.

So Iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorism, but unless we're playing world police (outside of nato/UN), why should we care?
 
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ZenMode said:
If you're talking about the reasons for our actions in Iran, there are several. Stopping their nuclear program, weakening the largest purveyor of terrorism in the world and retribution for massive civil rights violations to name a few.
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Many countries believe Israel has been terrorizing Palestinians. And that's the whole reason why this conflict is taking place.

Recently, the UN and Human Rights Council believe Israel is committing human rights violations. Historically what Israel has done has been described as apartheid - military occupation, discrimination, expulsion, displacement.

So if we provide more support to Israel than Iran does to Houthis and regional militias, (and i'm betting lockheed and raytheon would agree) then does that make us the largest purveyor of terrorism in the world?
 
p5mmr9 said:
And now we are stuck in something of a short lived stalemate that has the entire world by the proverbial balls. My problem isn't with trying to topple this terrible regime -
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The situation before this war was that both sides had deterrence by hostage taking. Iran had the Persian Gulf. U.S. could massively attack the regime by bombing. Not enough hostage taking to prevent all aggression, but it was there. Trump has shot his hostage. Now Iran is shooting its Persian Gulf hostage. My issue is what deterrence looks like after the hostages are gone.
 
gregh1 said:
Many countries believe Israel has been terrorizing Palestinians. And that's the whole reason why this conflict is taking place.

Recently, the UN and Human Rights Council believe Israel is committing human rights violations. Historically what Israel has done has been described as apartheid - military occupation, discrimination, expulsion, displacement.

So if we provide more support to Israel than Iran does to Houthis and regional militias, (and i'm betting lockheed and raytheon would agree) then does that make us the largest purveyor of terrorism in the world?
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The UN couldn't even bring itself to condemn Hamas and what they did on October 7th, so the UN probably isn't the best source for informed opinions on Israel.

UN Condemns Israel 17 Times, Rest of World Combined 6 Times​


UN General Assembly rejects motion to condemn Hamas, calls for ceasefire​

 
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