Iran Catch-All | IRAN WAR

[EyeballKid]

Of course it is - whether or not it is intended as such is not relevant to my post. The idea that Jews - or in this case a certain very public Jew - are controlling world affairs in secret is a very old anti-semitic trope. This concept of the Jewish puppet master is at the heart of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. It's not that complicated and just because you do not see the reference does not mean it isn't so.

And besides - putting pressure on Trump isn't the same as controlling him via invisible strings.

And I just want to point out - it IS possible to criticize Netanyahu and the Israeli government without resorting to these ridiculous "Jews control the world" tropes...or in this case, "this Jew controls Trump"

So…are the many images of Putin and Xi pulling Trump’s puppet strings also antisemitic?

At which point does depicting Trump as beholden to foreign strongmen cross the line?

 

[Duke Mu]

Trump has a lot of puppeteers.

 

[eternalheel]

Can you imagine being smart, athletic, empathetic, able to compartmentalize violence and losing your best friend, a similar dude to you, for donald fkng trump?

 

[wmheel1287]

This is shockingly anti-Semitic. It's also a ridiculous assertion.

Bologna. There is nothing anti-semetic about it. There is nothing to do with any religion about it. Bibi isnt Jewish. Trump isnt Christian. Neither of them is anything other than a secular warlord running a grotesque government.

It is absolutely criminal the way people throw around antisemitism for any critique of the Israeli government.

The image is not of Jews as a group doing anything. It isnt even an image of one Jew doing anything. It is a (probably factual) depiction of the President of the United States being controlled and directed by another head of state into a war that does not in any way benefit this nation.

Netanyahu is a fucking criminal gangster.

 

[sringwal]

So…are the many images of Putin and Xi pulling Trump’s puppet strings also antisemitic?

At which point does depicting Trump as beholden to foreign strongmen cross the line?

I’m with pmmmr on this one. You can’t play into existing stereotypes used to justify mass extermination. Find a different way to make the point.

 

[finesse]

I’m with pmmmr on this one. You can’t play into existing stereotypes used to justify mass extermination. Find a different way to make the point.

Hold on here just a moment. The Holocaust was horrible. So was what happened to the Armenians. So was what happened with the Khmer Rouge. So was what has happened dozens of places. Do a head count on native Americans. We can treat it like the horrible act of inhumanity it was but it's a small piece of terrible things that we have done to others throughout history. It's not blasphemous to treat it as just another miserable piece of history.

 

[wmheel1287]

The insistence that we treat Israel and its government as being synonymous with the Jewish faith is one of the primary reasons we are so fucked in the Middle East in the forst place. Governments are secular. Even governments that espouse religion are secular.

The fucking Vatican is a secular city state.

 

[sringwal]

Hold on here just a moment. The Holocaust was horrible. So was what happened to the Armenians. So was what happened with the Khmer Rouge. So was what has happened dozens of places. Do a head count on native Americans. We can treat it like the horrible act of inhumanity it was but it's a small piece of terrible things that we have done to others throughout history. It's not blasphemous to treat it as just another miserable piece of history.

I'm not interested in ranking tragedies. That's not my point. When imagery like the below was used to promote the ideals of Nazi Germany, it becomes off limits, IMO, when referencing Jewish people today.

puppet master | #TranslateHate



And whether Bib is religiously Jewish is beyond the point; he is ethnically Jewish, and that was enough to justify genocide. I feel the same way regarding the following:

It's why this is fair game
or this

but not this:

 

[Icky Mettle]

Of course it is - whether or not it is intended as such is not relevant to my post. The idea that Jews - or in this case a certain very public Jew - are controlling world affairs in secret is a very old anti-semitic trope. This concept of the Jewish puppet master is at the heart of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. It's not that complicated and just because you do not see the reference does not mean it isn't so.

And besides - putting pressure on Trump isn't the same as controlling him via invisible strings.

Are these anti-Semitic?:

 

[finesse]

I'm not interested in ranking tragedies. That's not my point. When imagery like the below was used to promote the ideals of Nazi Germany, it becomes off limits, IMO, when referencing Jewish people today.

puppet master | #TranslateHate



And whether Bib is religiously Jewish is beyond the point; he is ethnically Jewish, and that was enough to justify genocide. I feel the same way regarding the following:

It's why this is fair game
or this

but not this:

These don't bother me either. It gives me information about the people who use or revel in them. If they want to self identify as ignorant hateful scumbags , I appreciate the ease of getting that information. Treating that stuff with the contempt it deserves has always struck me as a smarter approach than empowering those words and pictures. When people have such obviously worthless ideas, why do you let them matter to you?

 

[sringwal]

These don't bother me either. It gives me information about the people who use or revel in them. If they want to self identify as ignorant hateful scumbags , I appreciate the ease of getting that information. Treating that stuff with the contempt it deserves has always struck me as a smarter approach than empowering those words and pictures. When people have such obviously worthless ideas, why do you let them matter to you?

It's not really a question of being bothered, or not bothered. What it comes down to is this: visual propaganda is extremely powerful in swaying, and desynthesizing, people. And we live in an image dominated era.

 

[finesse]

It's not really a question of being bothered, or not bothered. What it comes down to is this: visual propaganda is extremely powerful in swaying, and desynthesizing, people. And we live in an image dominated era.

It's still an information age if you want it to be. It's more nearly correct to say that we live in an image and information manipulated age. If there was ever a time to not believe what you see and hear, this is it. I can't protect people from themselves, I don't want to and it's not my responsibility. I generally tend to be courteous mostly to avoid the interaction with people being a jerk and otherwise calling attention brings, but I detest most of the politically correct speech codes. I don't feel a desire or a need to use derogatory terms but I think they end up being a weapon against themselves. Scorn and ridicule are much more effective than speech codes.

 

[nycfan]

 

[nycfan]

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-ea...8?st=3CEfv6&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

 

[sringwal]

It's still an information age if you want it to be. It's more nearly correct to say that we live in an image and information manipulated age. If there was ever a time to not believe what you see and hear, this is it. I can't protect people from themselves, I don't want to and it's not my responsibility. I generally tend to be courteous mostly to avoid the interaction with people being a jerk and otherwise calling attention brings, but I detest most of the politically correct speech codes. I don't feel a desire or a need to use derogatory terms but I think they end up being a weapon against themselves. Scorn and ridicule are much more effective than speech codes.

I'm not saying that you are wrong; I am just not there, yet. I suspect that it is largely due to my job as an educator - I'm concerned about the world that my students are growing up in, and how they are being manipulated. And while it's not my job to protect my students from themselves, it is my job to teach them the danger of the 24/7 propaganda that will dominate most of their lives moving forward, and to understand why some things we see in the present are problematic because of their connections to the past.

 

[p5mmr9]

Bologna. There is nothing anti-semetic about it. There is nothing to do with any religion about it. Bibi isnt Jewish. Trump isnt Christian. Neither of them is anything other than a secular warlord running a grotesque government.

It is absolutely criminal the way people throw around antisemitism for any critique of the Israeli government.

The image is not of Jews as a group doing anything. It isnt even an image of one Jew doing anything. It is a (probably factual) depiction of the President of the United States being controlled and directed by another head of state into a war that does not in any way benefit this nation.

Netanyahu is a fucking criminal gangster.

Netanyahu is Jewish and he is the head of state of the world's only Jewish State. The "puppet master" trope is very old and very anti-semitic. (I submitted a very brief link from the most prestigious and oldest American Jewry organization in the United States explaining its origins.) Netanyahu isn't controlling Trump. The only person in his administration suggesting such is a raging anti-semite. So, congratulations for associating yourself with that person.

Of course context means much - Xi and Putin aren't Jewish...so, showing Xi "controlling" Trump as a puppet master isn't anti-semitic. Netanyahu IS Jewish and he is the head of the world's only Jewish state. So, there should be some sensitivity and deference to historically defamatory tropes - not for Netanyahu's sake, but for everyone else's. A watermelon is not racist. A watermelon in support of the Palestinian cause is not racist. A watermelon with a black person IS racist or at least it is insensitive. Is this really difficult?

 

[wmheel1287]

Netanyahu is Jewish and he is the head of state of the world's only Jewish State. The "puppet master" trope is very old and very anti-semitic. (I submitted a very brief link from the most prestigious and oldest American Jewry organization in the United States explaining its origins.) Netanyahu isn't controlling Trump. The only person in his administration suggesting such is a raging anti-semite. So, congratulations for associating yourself with that person.

Of course context means much - Xi and Putin aren't Jewish...so, showing Xi "controlling" Trump as a puppet master isn't anti-semitic. Netanyahu IS Jewish and he is the head of the world's only Jewish state. So, there should be some sensitivity and deference to historically defamatory tropes - not for Netanyahu's sake, but for everyone else's. A watermelon is not racist. A watermelon in support of the Palestinian cause is not racist. A watermelon with a black person IS racist or at least it is insensitive. Is this really difficult?

It's honestly pretty difficult for me because I do not see anything remotely anti-semetic about the Netanyahu cartoon. Jewish people should all recognize and acknowledge that Bibi is a monster and he most certainly is controlling and manipulating Trump in precisely the same way Putin is and Xi has done.

 

[finesse]

Netanyahu is Jewish and he is the head of state of the world's only Jewish State. The "puppet master" trope is very old and very anti-semitic. (I submitted a very brief link from the most prestigious and oldest American Jewry organization in the United States explaining its origins.) Netanyahu isn't controlling Trump. The only person in his administration suggesting such is a raging anti-semite. So, congratulations for associating yourself with that person.

Of course context means much - Xi and Putin aren't Jewish...so, showing Xi "controlling" Trump as a puppet master isn't anti-semitic. Netanyahu IS Jewish and he is the head of the world's only Jewish state. So, there should be some sensitivity and deference to historically defamatory tropes - not for Netanyahu's sake, but for everyone else's. A watermelon is not racist. A watermelon in support of the Palestinian cause is not racist. A watermelon with a black person IS racist or at least it is insensitive. Is this really difficult?

He's being judged by his character and actions. Part of those involve using his religion as a weapon against the gullible fools here. Take the religion out of it, something America should have done with Israel fifty years ago. Would we have given Israel the same kinds of leeway in selling our secrets, attacking our ships and manipulating our citizens?

If I had to take sides it would be against anyone who claimed allegiance to the God of Abraham in any form. They've caused nothing but trouble. I will say that's mostly because others believed that the Jews had a special covenant and they thought that they could replace the Jews in that role.

 

[lawtig02]

I'm usually game for these types of diversions from the thread topic, but this one, while important, is different. I see it as a little bit like the fight between JK Rowling and trans rights people over whether the trans movement undermines traditional feminism. Both sides have good faith points that are irreconcilable.

In any event, any chance we could move the Bibi/antisemitism discussion to a different thread so this one can stay focused on the war? Thank you.

 

[nycfan]