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Is this why Dem’s Approval Rating Polls are so bad?

UNCatTech said:
Consider the lies of the trump administration.

He convinced people that he was protecting the children, by convincing people that kids could go to school a bit and come home a girl. Then they added the angle of tax payer money being spent on criminals because of a statement from Harris and one verified occurrence.

That combined with low knowledge voters that believe that the trans population is 20% and is scared that it is contagious...

And you have what we see.
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Like I said earlier, the only two things that voters are against is hormone / sex changes on children and males playing in female sports.

That is the case today despite all of Trump's nonsense.
 
McAdooSmackinYou said:
There's no point in you saying "like I said earlier" because what you said earlier – on this or any topic – was not accurate and no one paid it any attention.
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Well, I got my information from Ezra Klein yesterday. You may not believe me, but are you really going to call Ezra Klein a liar?
 
hedge said:
You talk about stories and narratives that will resonate with voters. Often it is personalities that resonate with voters. When the next Obama or Bill Clinton materializes, so will the Dem vote. Were Biden's policies and narratives really much different than Obama's? I would say no. But Biden isn't Obama. Trump is the Obama of the right. We've seen time and again that it hardly matters what story Trump tells, his supporters eat it up, even if it contradicts what he said yesterday...
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I think you’re right that personality matters a lot. I’d add that what really lands with voters isn’t just a charismatic “personality,” it’s whether that person feels like they embody a story people want to believe in. Obama worked because he stood for hope, renewal, a redemptive idea of America. Trump works because he channels betrayal, rage, and defiance. These guys don’t win on policy alone, they win because they connect emotionally in a way that makes people feel seen.

That’s what’s been missing from the Democrats lately. They keep elevating polished technocrats, people who are smart and credentialed but don’t make folks feel anything. They sound like managers, not leaders. And most voters aren’t looking for a manager. They want someone who speaks from the gut and fights for them with moral clarity. Not “messaging,” not “positioning,” but real emotional conviction.

We need to start nurturing leaders like that. Not waiting for the next Obama to materialize, but creating the conditions for someone to rise up from below who can actually connect across lines of race and class and geography. Someone who means something to people.
 
Lando said:
Answering every question and making every line in speeches about transgender people was truly a mistake the Democrats totally made.
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This is a needless caricature. He clearly meant giving 100% as in full effort, not 100% of the campaign was about transgender.
 
I confess to not have read the entire thread, but I think Dems are suffering from their stances on immigration more than discussed.
Some of what Trump has done is idiocy but it plays well to the crowd, compared to a "only five thousand a day" policy under Biden. Immigration is the top issue worldwide. We're no exception.
 
ZenMode said:
Like I said earlier, the only two things that voters are against is hormone / sex changes on children and males playing in female sports.

That is the case today despite all of Trump's nonsense.
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this is just blatantly false.

a LOT of right wingers think that transgender folks should not exist. they don't accept or understand gender dysphoria or gender vs. gender identity. they think that trans people are mentally ill or brainwashed, essentially that they are not legitimate people and shouldn't be normalized by society.
 
ZenMode said:
lol...ok.
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Really? They have talked about reversing Obergefell.
Here in GA they just passed the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which many have noted can be used in cases for discriminating against LBGTQ people.
They are passing laws to take medical rights away from trans people, and others for that matter.
They friggen took away the option for LBGTQ people on the fucking suicide hotline.
They want to challenge Bostock v Clayton County.
Banning trans from Military Service.
Eliminating LBGTQ programs declared as "DEI".
Censoring government websites of information for LBGTQ people.
They want books written for LGBTQ people removed from libraries.
Not allowing passports and other documents to reflect the gender the person identifies as.


www.aclu.org

Trump on LGBTQ Rights | American Civil Liberties Union

www.aclu.org www.aclu.org

www.hrc.org

The Real List of Trump’s “Unprecedented Steps” for the LGBTQ Community

Post submitted by Lucas Acosta (he/him), former Deputy Director of Communications, Politics HRC lists Trump's persistent attacks against the LGBTQ…
www.hrc.org www.hrc.org

www.gladlaw.org

Making Sense of the Trump Administration’s Anti-LGBTQ+ Executive Orders - GLAD Law

Here's what you need to know about President Trump's latest anti-LGBTQ+ executive orders and what they mean for our community.
www.gladlaw.org www.gladlaw.org

No, you are right, they are not doing anything. They didn't act like fucking children over where Sarah McBride was going to take a shit.

But, since we know that you are with trump in hating LBGTQ people, I never expected you to care.
 
ZenMode said:
Like I said earlier, the only two things that voters are against is hormone / sex changes on children and males playing in female sports.

That is the case today despite all of Trump's nonsense.
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AND, LIKE I SAID EARLIER, YOU ARE STILL FULL OF SHIT.
 
ZenMode said:
How is it that the gay rights movement went so well for Dems, while the trans rights movement backfired so badly?
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It took the gay rights movement years and years and years to go so well...inch by inch with incremental progress that allowed America to metabolize that change.

Unless we succumb to autocracy , incremental change will bring about the same rights for the Trans movement... maybe 4-5 years from now the Trans boogeyman will no longer resonate with the vast majority of America.
 
ZenMode said:
How is the GOP scoring political points on the gay rights issue?
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You clearly didn't read the post.

He didn't say they were scoring points on gay rights issues. The opposite.

Here, I'll quote it for you: Seeing as how many GOP populists have scored political points by going after gay people -- not just trans people! Gay people!

They are scoring points with their bigoted maga cult members by going after LGBTQ people's rights.

Damn @Zoo_View I did it again. I let this homophobe zen bait me in. I really need to learn to ignore him.

He's a perfect example of how hard it is to get anyone to change their opinion, no matter how often they are proven wrong.
 
Paine said:
Do you not remember that Republicans already tried the bathroom panic, and it backfired? Pat McCrory lost the 2016 North Carolina governor’s race because of HB2. The backlash wasn’t because Democrats caved or stayed quiet; it was because the issue was reframed: as government overreach, economic sabotage, and a needless culture war that made NC a national punchline.

The lesson isn’t “give ground on trans issues.” It’s that you don’t win by playing defense. You win by shifting the emotional terrain: mocking their obsession, tying it to real-world harm, and showing voters who the real weirdos are.
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Pat McCrory - a moderate Pub - lost the governorship because he pissed off the Charlotte business community (over a variety of things, including HB2) and they moved on to a very, very, very moderate Democrat who was about 1.5 steps to the left of McCrory. However, the Republican Party in NC has been going pure gangbusters since HB2 and are doing quite well. Additionally, even after the eventual repeal & sunsetting of HB2, local governments often passed similar ordinances in their communities and trans rights have continued to be under attack.

The Pubs, by and large, won the war of marginalizing the trans community, even if it eventually kinda lost the battle of HB2. And that is in a somewhat purple state like NC, in redder states things are much, much worse for the trans community.

The idea that you think HB2 shows a "successful" fight on behalf of a minority community would be laughable if it didn't show the shallow victories we can expect from "shifting the emotional terrain".
 
Paine said:
That’s what’s been missing from the Democrats lately. They keep elevating polished technocrats, people who are smart and credentialed but don’t make folks feel anything. They sound like managers, not leaders. And most voters aren’t looking for a manager. They want someone who speaks from the gut and fights for them with moral clarity. Not “messaging,” not “positioning,” but real emotional conviction.

We need to start nurturing leaders like that. Not waiting for the next Obama to materialize, but creating the conditions for someone to rise up from below who can actually connect across lines of race and class and geography. Someone who means something to people.
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I erased all but the last two paragraphs, but focusing on the the latter: you think leaders like that can be nurtured? Really. I see much has been made of Josh Shapiro's speaking style. Seems he has copied Obama. So being a copycat is nurture? Don't think that's what you mean, but nurturing a Presidential leader is a tall task.

Speaking of elevating in the prior paragraph. It's interesting that every single one of the most likely Democratic candidates for President have a law background, Political Science background, communications background, or wealthy private (elite) schooling background. Newsome and AOC being somewhat exceptions. So based on your criteria of real emotional conviction............doubtful any of the known ones can meet the mark.
 
SnoopRob said:
Pat McCrory - a moderate Pub - lost the governorship because he pissed off the Charlotte business community (over a variety of things, including HB2) and they moved on to a very, very, very moderate Democrat who was about 1.5 steps to the left of McCrory. However, the Republican Party in NC has been going pure gangbusters since HB2 and are doing quite well. Additionally, even after the eventual repeal & sunsetting of HB2, local governments often passed similar ordinances in their communities and trans rights have continued to be under attack.

The Pubs, by and large, won the war of marginalizing the trans community, even if it eventually kinda lost the battle of HB2. And that is in a somewhat purple state like NC, in redder states things are much, much worse for the trans community.

The idea that you think HB2 shows a "successful" fight on behalf of a minority community would be laughable if it didn't show the shallow victories we can expect from "shifting the emotional terrain".
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No one said HB2 was a total victory or that trans rights are safe in North Carolina. The point is that Republicans overreached, and they paid for it.

Yes: Cooper was a bland, centrist Democrat; that strengthens the argument. In a state Trump won, an uncharismatic moderate beat an incumbent Republican. IIRC, this was the first time an incumbent governor had lost a reelection bid in North Carolina history. Not because people fell in love with progressivism but because the GOP faceplanted on a culture war issue and got tagged as both extreme and economically reckless. That’s how terrain shifts.

You’re also treating the Republican recovery since then as proof that HB2 didn’t matter. But temporary setbacks don’t stop them from coming back. That’s true of any power struggle. If you’re going to dismiss every successful pushback just because the right eventually regroups, you’re basically arguing that nothing matters unless it ends in total victory.

You’re right that trans rights are still under attack, in North Carolina and elsewhere. That’s exactly why we need to understand what actually worked during the HB2 fight: not moral scolding, but reframing. Turning their cruelty into a joke. Tying it to real-world harm. Making them look like the weird ones obsessed with bathrooms instead of schools, jobs, or healthcare.

So it seems to me that shifting the emotional terrain is effective, not shallow.
 
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