Israel Hamas War | Saudis warn Trump on Qatar

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies: 3K
  • Views: 108K
  • Politics 
superrific said:
You really think the alternative to a genocide is "no consequence"? What the actual fuck is wrong with you?
Click to expand...
There is no genocide. Israel is more then capable of committing genocide. They've killed about 55k people in a country of 3 million, with 15k people per square mile. Either Israel is the inept military in world history or they aren't even trying to commit genocide.
superrific said:
Why was Israel able to neutralize Hezbollah without turning Lebanon into a rubble pile? What is the main difference between those situations? It can't possibly be oceanside real estate, can it?
Click to expand...
I have no idea. Hezbollah isn't Hamas. Lebanon isn't Gaza. It would appear that Hezbollah/Lebanon actually care about not being turned into rubble.
 
superrific said:
All of that shit in Vietnam was illegal. It was well known to be wrong, which is why the military spent so much effort covering it up.

But anyway, your answer gave away your whole game, lol. You don't even know what helps your argument versus hurts it. If your response to the Vietnam atrocities is to say, "well, things have changed" -- well, guess what asshat? That undermines your argument. That shows that everyone knows what Israel is doing is wrong.
Click to expand...
I was referring to a number of things, like Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Stop changing the subject.

Anyway, no, terrorists don't live in operating hospitals, churches, schools and mosques....

Israel has to monitor/manage Gaza for survival because Gaza is run by terrorists.
 
ZenMode said:
As I've asked multiple times, what should Israel do? Hamas continually attacks them, with the biggest attack being on 10/7/23, then they run back to Gaza, hostages in hand, and hide in hospitals, churches, schools and mosques...

What should Israel do? Let them continually attack without consequence?
Click to expand...
Notice how no one can answer this question.
 
superrific said:
Just out of curiosity, what's the emergency responder response to the following situation (adapted from real life events): A person takes a whole bunch of guns into a hotel room. He starts shooting at pedestrians below, while taking some hostages for protection.

Would you respond by:

1. Blowing up the hotel with a bunker busting bomb; or
2. Find a different way

Just curious.
Click to expand...
I don’t think that is a fair comparison. 10/7 wasn’t just one lone gunman. It was a coordinated attack by hundreds of heavily armed terrorists. Not to mention the thousands of missiles that Hamas launched into Israel prior to and after 10/7. Hamas is a paramilitary terrorist organization. Law enforcement would not be leading the response to them.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Notice how no one can answer this question.
Click to expand...
How about you answer how Israel will know when it has defeated Hamas and when this "war" will end? They've tried and failed many times to defeat Hamas. It won't work this way either. Ethnically cleansing all the Palestinians out of Gaza is not a solution.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Notice how no one can answer this question.
Click to expand...
Yes. Nobody knows what Israel should do, but they know what Israel shouldn't do and that is attempt to win and defeat Hamas. They're apparently supposed to respond, but only a little bit...and then wait for the next attack and respond just a little bit and so on...
 
Last edited:
ZenMode said:
Yes.

Yes. Nobody knows what Israel should do, but they know what Israel shouldn't do and that is attempt to win and defeat Hamas. They're apparently supposed to respond, but only a little bit...and then wait for the next attack and respond just a little bit and so on...
Click to expand...
Again, you haven't answered how their strategy will work this time when they've tried it many times before and failed. They have no real plan to deal with Hamas. Their only plan to flatten and clear the land to take it over. Yet, either your head is in the sand or you are too stupid to see that.
 
RaiGuy said:
Again, you haven't answered how their strategy will work this time when they've tried it many times before and failed.
Click to expand...
I don't recall Israel trying a full ground invasion.
RaiGuy said:
They have no real plan to deal with Hamas.
Click to expand...
I've said before that there is no way for Israel, on its own, to fix the issue of Muslim terrorism/Islamism on its own. That can only be fixed internally by moderate/liberal Muslims. So, it may be true that all Israel can do is decimate Gaza/Hamas, destroy all their tunnels, destroy all their weaponsetc just hoping to push the next October 7th attack further out. It may also be true that Israel can get Hamas out of government. An October 7th-type attack didn't happen under Fatah. I assume that is due to the fact that Hamas was only operating within Gaza, not running the government of Gaza.
RaiGuy said:
Their only plan to flatten and clear the land to take it over. Yet, either your head is in the sand or you are too stupid to see that.
Click to expand...

Neither you or I can speak for Israel. We can discuss Israel taking over Gaza IF it happens. Until it does, it's speculation.
 


200.gif

I mean, yeah, agreed. Has Israel read the Ransom of Red Chief?
 
RaiGuy said:
How about you answer how Israel will know when it has defeated Hamas and when this "war" will end? They've tried and failed many times to defeat Hamas. It won't work this way either. Ethnically cleansing all the Palestinians out of Gaza is not a solution.
Click to expand...
They seem to have done a good job at dismantling their key enemies. Hamas is weakened and unable to launch another 10/7-style attack. Hezbollah has been crippled and is no longer interested in fighting. The Houthis are done. Iran has backed off. People may not like the tactics, but Israel has done a remarkable job at neutralizing their adversaries.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
The tunnels under the hospitals aren’t even in dispute.
Click to expand...
No one is disputing the existence of tunnels, as Israel themselves built some under one of the Gaza hospitals. What is disputed is how to deal with them. Flattening everything above them is not the course of action that should be taken. Israel is able to conduct targeted attacks, but they decide going for total destruction is better.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
I don’t think that is a fair comparison. 10/7 wasn’t just one lone gunman. It was a coordinated attack by hundreds of heavily armed terrorists. Not to mention the thousands of missiles that Hamas launched into Israel prior to and after 10/7. Hamas is a paramilitary terrorist organization. Law enforcement would not be leading the response to them.
Click to expand...
Of course law enforcement wouldn't be leading the response to them. But my question wasn't really about law enforcement, was it? I mean, I added that flourish to personalize the issue for you, but we both know the answer, right? Of course you wouldn't bomb the shit of the building. You'd find another way.

I don't mean that as a complete refutation of your point. Obviously it's not a perfect analogy for a number of reasons. Still, stay with me for a minute and let's think about the circumstances in which destroying the building could be justified. Well, if the guy was planning a huge chemical attack, or was putting the finishing touches on a nuke. In that case, the loss of life from bombing could be miniscule compared to not bombing.

So suppose law enforcement does that. Who would have the burden of proof? Would we insist that the victims prove that the bomber wouldn't have killed anyone else but for the bombing? Or would we make the police explain why they thought it necessary? You know the answer to that question as well. And that's precisely the weakness in your position on Gaza. It should be Israel's burden to demonstrate why it is necessary to kill huge numbers of people to protect itself, not the Palestinians' burden to show that it is not.

[Note: this is one reason why the "what should Israel do" question is so empty]

I see absolutely no reason to trust Israel's claims about doing the minimum required to win this war. I see no reason to trust anything they say, given how many times they've provably lied and dissembled. And yes, I'm aware that Hamas is not exactly a committed truth teller. Conflict often produces propaganda on all sides. In absence of any actual proof that slaughtering civilians is necessary, I'm going with the common intuition that it's not. There is almost never a situation anywhere in which killing hundreds of thousands and starving millions (maybe or maybe not to the point of death) is necessary to defeat a paramilitary organization.
 
superrific said:
All this proves is that you don't know what genocide means.
Click to expand...
According to the 1948 International Genocide Convention it means committing acts "with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group."

Agree?
 
Last edited:
RaiGuy said:
No one is disputing the existence of tunnels, as Israel themselves built some under one of the Gaza hospitals. What is disputed is how to deal with them. Flattening everything above them is not the course of action that should be taken. Israel is able to conduct targeted attacks, but they decide going for total destruction is better.
Click to expand...
Then why post the video and the BBC and say no one can confirm the tunnels under the hospitals? That’s not in dispute. The jest is there are tunnels under the hospitals. Folks posting that video and saying “but is it real?” Is done so that people question the existence.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top