Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

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RaiGuy said:
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I heard this on BBC broadcast on NPR tonight…..I don’t find this BBC too informative……kinda like CNN Headline News was…..broad in terms of topics; shallow in terms of details.

I’m interested in your take.

In my poorly informed opinion, this looks like it will be a shitty thing for Gaza’s civilians.
 
Zoo_View said:
I heard this on BBC broadcast on NPR tonight…..I don’t find this BBC too informative……kinda like CNN Headline News was…..broad in terms of topics; shallow in terms of details.

I’m interested in your take.

In my poorly informed opinion, this looks like it will be a shitty thing for Gaza’s civilians.
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Yeah, I don’t see anything good coming from this. Basically trying to replace Hamas with a gang that’s affiliated with ISIS. Both are shitty.
 
RaiGuy said:
Yeah, I don’t see anything good coming from this. Basically trying to replace Hamas with a gang that’s affiliated with ISIS. Both are shitty.
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But, it’s Netanyahu arming an ISIS group? Hoping it’ll fight the parts of Hamas that Netanyahu doesn’t like? Right?
 
Zoo_View said:
But, it’s Netanyahu arming an ISIS group? Hoping it’ll fight the parts of Hamas that Netanyahu doesn’t like? Right?
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Lol yup, without the consent of his government. We all know how that ends up working out. Also, makes you wonder how long he has been working with ISIS groups. It is interesting that in all their time, they never seemed to be enemies with Israel. Things that make you go hmm lol
 
RaiGuy said:
In their own words…

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Maybe you can give us some words from the terrorists around the world, particularly Hamas and Hezbollah, who's stated goal is to carry out "Oct 7" attacks again and again, wiping Israel, and all the Jews therein, off the face of the Earth?

Your faux pearl clutching isn't accomplishing much.
 
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ZenMode said:
Maybe you can give us some words from the terrorists around the world, particularly Hamas and Hezbollah, who's stated goal is to carry out "Oct 7" attacks again and again, wiping Israel, and all the Jews therein, off the face of the Earth?

Your faux pearl clutching isn't accomplishing much.
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You see the difference? You are asking about seeing what terrorist groups are saying, and that link is what the mainstream Israeli media is saying. It's mirroring terrorist rhetoric, is it not? You were the one arguing how moral Israel is, and yet they keep showing their true colors. When their rhetoric mimics that of terrorists, what does that make them? How are you going to move the goalposts on this one?
 
RaiGuy said:
You see the difference? You are asking about seeing what terrorist groups are saying, and that link is what the mainstream Israeli media is saying. It's mirroring terrorist rhetoric, is it not? You were the one arguing how moral Israel is, and yet they keep showing their true colors. When their rhetoric mimics that of terrorists, what does that make them? How are you going to move the goalposts on this one?
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Yes, I see the difference. On one hand, we're talking about the "media" in Israel. As I'm sure you know, the so-called media TV shows in the US are often nothing more than inflammatory rhetoric, designed to get people all wound up to get the show ratings. Ever watch The 5 on Fox News? Ever watch Rachel Maddow or whatever the ridiculous morning show guy is on MSNBC?

There's no reason similar shows in Israel wouldn't be the same. These people are useless talking heads, whose opinions mean nothing.

On the other hand, you have leaders of terrorist organizations specifically saying they will carry out October 7-type attacks "again and again", until Israel is eliminated.
 
ZenMode said:
Yes, I see the difference. On one hand, we're talking about the "media" in Israel. As I'm sure you know, the so-called media TV shows in the US are often nothing more than inflammatory rhetoric, designed to get people all wound up to get the show ratings. Ever watch The 5 on Fox News? Ever watch Rachel Maddow or whatever the ridiculous morning show guy is on MSNBC?

There's no reason similar shows in Israel wouldn't be the same. These people are useless talking heads, whose opinions mean nothing.

On the other hand, you have leaders of terrorist organizations specifically saying they will carry out October 7-type attacks "again and again", until Israel is eliminated.
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Lol, so people on Israeli media saying they want to get rid of Palestinians is just "inflammatory rhetoric" but when the others say it it's terrorist rhetoric.
I've seen Fox and I've never heard them say that all democrats should be wipe out. I've never seen Rachel Maddow argue that all MAGA supporters should be blown up. Maybe you watch a different channel that I don't know about.
 
RaiGuy said:
Lol, so people on Israeli media saying they want to get rid of Palestinians is just "inflammatory rhetoric" but when the others say it it's terrorist rhetoric.
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Israeli TV personalities shouldn't be saying such things but we also don't have any context for what they said. The clips are highly cropped, which is normally done with dishonest intentions. Either way, while inappropriate, ultimately the opinion of know-nothing talk show hosts doesn't impact actions by IDF.
RaiGuy said:
I've seen Fox and I've never heard them say that all democrats should be wipe out. I've never seen Rachel Maddow argue that all MAGA supporters should be blown up. Maybe you watch a different channel that I don't know about.
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I haven't either, but I've heard some very ignorant, inflammatory things. Of course, I can't really speak for Israelis. If I lived next door to a homicidal, lunatic neighbor, who was constantly lobbing Molotov cocktails through my windows, year after year, I might say some inflammatory things, too.
 
ZenMode said:
neighbor, who was constantly lobbing Molotov cocktails through my windows, year after year, I might say some inflammatory things, too.
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I have no issues with Israel saying inflammatory things. And to extend your analogy, I wouldn't even have a problem with Israel sending some explosives back the way it came. Here's what I wouldn't do: burn down the whole subdivision to make sure I killed my neighbors, nor would I try to kill the extended families of anyone associated with the house.
 
superrific said:
I have no issues with Israel saying inflammatory things. And to extend your analogy, I wouldn't even have a problem with Israel sending some explosives back the way it came. Here's what I wouldn't do: burn down the whole subdivision to make sure I killed my neighbors, nor would I try to kill the extended families of anyone associated with the house.
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We are back to our previous impasse.*

I look at what Israel has done, with the exception of the denial of aid, and I see no issue with their actions, overall. It's not realistic to expect them to continue to be attacked and retaliate just a little, which is to say they aren't permitted, due to international pressure, to actually win. They're, at least prior to now, pressured into only fighting to a tie.

*So, I'll ask again.... what should Israel do?
 
ZenMode said:
I look at what Israel has done, with the exception of the denial of aid, and I see no issue with their actions, overall.
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Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

The reason that they aren't "winning" is that they aren't trying to win. They don't have a plan -- not unlike the US in Vietnam, where we seemed to assume if we killed all the bad guys, we'd come out on top. But the bad guys kept coming and coming.

If Israel were to come out with a realistic peace plan to secure better defenses for them and a vision for the lawful inhabitants of the Palestinian areas, I'll bet it would get a lot of international support. But have you seen anything like that? I haven't. Because they don't want peace. The religious right has taken over the country and that religious right is genocidal.
 
superrific said:
I have no issues with Israel saying inflammatory things. And to extend your analogy, I wouldn't even have a problem with Israel sending some explosives back the way it came. Here's what I wouldn't do: burn down the whole subdivision to make sure I killed my neighbors, nor would I try to kill the extended families of anyone associated with the house.
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Nor would you impede aid and watch the entire subdivision starve, suffer and die of your inflicted injures, etc, etc,,,,.
 
superrific said:
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

The reason that they aren't "winning" is that they aren't trying to win. They don't have a plan -- not unlike the US in Vietnam, where we seemed to assume if we killed all the bad guys, we'd come out on top. But the bad guys kept coming and coming.
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Their plan, as I've read it, is to remove Hamas entirely. Presumably to have a non-terrorist group run the government.
superrific said:
If Israel were to come out with a realistic peace plan to secure better defenses for them and a vision for the lawful inhabitants of the Palestinian areas, I'll bet it would get a lot of international support. But have you seen anything like that? I haven't. Because they don't want peace. The religious right has taken over the country and that religious right is genocidal.
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There can be no peace plan as long as Hamas, or any Islamist/terrorist group, exists in Gaza.

All Israel can do, outside forcing regime change and "hope", is to debilitate Hamas so badly, and likely continue enforcing a blockade, to put off the next attack as long as possible.
 
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