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Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
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The difference is that Israel actually values the lives of its citizens, while Hamas views Palestinian civilians as nothing more than cannon fodder for its PR campaign. How can you safely and effectively wage war against an enemy that openly admits to trying to get as many innocent civilians on its side killed as possible? I feel for the innocent Palestinians, because they are caught in a situation in which their own government wants them dead and the Israeli government doesn't care enough to keep them alive.
Simply No; who in the world are we to make judgements about who values their citizens? I simply cannot abide by this notion that any non western people do not value human life. An honest assessment of such a dire situation requires us to step away from our own ethnocentrism and not impugn to others such a value laden distortion!
 
Simply No; who in the world are we to make judgements about who values their citizens? I simply cannot abide by this notion that any non western people do not value human life. An honest assessment of such a dire situation requires us to step away from our own ethnocentrism and not impugn to others such a value laden distortion!
It is easy to make judgements about Hamas not valuing Palestinian civilians when Hamas's leadership has explicitly stated "we don't value the lives of Palestinian civilians". They want as many civilian casualties as possible because it helps them in their PR battle. If Hamas cared about civilians, it wouldn't use civilian infrastructure such as hospitals and schools to conduct military operations.
 
I'm not an Israeli leader or an allied diplomat. It's not my job to figure out what to do. But I can see what isn't working, as they can yet they persist. Their goal is to destroy Hamas, which is impossible. The only question is how many civilians will they kill in pursuit of an impossible goal?

The WWII analogies are false. Germany and Japan had powerful warmaking capabilities. Hamas has never had such acapacity.
I am in agreement and it is simplistic thinking to compare today with yesterday; Palestinians are not today's reincarnation of Germans or Japanese; different time period, history and circumstances, all of which fails as a reference point regarding radicalization.
 
What's the ratio of soldiers to civilians killed during October 7th? Do share.

The soldier/civilian fatality ratio in the Gaza War is one of the lowest in modern warfare, despite Hamas's efforts to the contrary.
25% killed on Oct 7 were soldiers

The second part of your post is completely false. There have already been 16,000 children killed! Are they considered part of Hamas? How about you share how many militants Israel has killed vs civilians?
 
It is easy to make judgements about Hamas not valuing Palestinian civilians when Hamas's leadership has explicitly stated "we don't value the lives of Palestinian civilians". They want as many civilian casualties as possible because it helps them in their PR battle. If Hamas cared about civilians, it wouldn't use civilian infrastructure such as hospitals and schools to conduct military operations.
Easy judgements are also failed judgements because there is not any rigor to the thought process!
 
25% killed on Oct 7 were soldiers

The second part of your post is completely false. There have already been 16,000 children killed! Are they considered part of Hamas? How about you share how many militants Israel has killed vs civilians?
Absolutely. Longer article, but with plenty of backing for his data:

 
Absolutely. Longer article, but with plenty of backing for his data:

Times of Israel? That site might as well be called Israelpropoganda.com lol

can you tell me why Israel blocks all outside investigators and press? What are they hiding?
 
Times of Israel? That site might as well be called Israelpropoganda.com lol

can you tell me why Israel blocks all outside investigators and press? What are they hiding?
The data in the article is well sourced. You seem to have no problem posting information from propaganda X and Instagram accounts and Al Jazeera on here.
 
The data in the article is well sourced. You seem to have no problem posting information from propaganda X and Instagram accounts and Al Jazeera on here.
Well sourced? One of the “sources” is a commentary article. Also, if they really felt this way and wanted to prove it, then they’d allow outside investigators. Out of curiosity, how long have you been following the situation there? What’s your background with it?
 
Well sourced? One of the “sources” is a commentary article. Also, if they really felt this way and wanted to prove it, then they’d allow outside investigators. Out of curiosity, how long have you been following the situation there? What’s your background with it?
I've been following the situation there for several decades. I don't have a background with either party. Just an observer who can see the BS being levied by each side in the propaganda battle.
 
I will admit that while there is so much positivity right now for Harris, this issue is still the one that I believe has the possibility of getting Trump back into contention if Iran escalates things significantly, and Israel retaliates with impunity. We don’t want a significant conflict leading into the election.
 
You're right...the IDF hasn't killed any civilians.

Good point.
Never said that. You said that. Poor point.

Downstream effects of Oct 7th are dreadful all around and the rage should be directed at Hamas. If you were to listen to the people of Gaza who are there, not outside, you would know this is the sentiment. Terrible situation for them.
 
Never said that. You said that. Poor point.

Downstream effects of Oct 7th are dreadful all around and the rage should be directed at Hamas. If you were to listen to the people of Gaza who are there, not outside, you would know this is the sentiment. Terrible situation for them.
Maybe it's just me, but I think the blame should be on the ones that are indiscriminately dropping bombs on displaced civilians in tents and the ones that snipe children for fun. No one is saying Hamas is innocent here, but they aren't the ones flattening Gaza right now.
 
Maybe it's just me, but I think the blame should be on the ones that are indiscriminately dropping bombs on displaced civilians in tents and the ones that snipe children for fun. No one is saying Hamas is innocent here, but they aren't the ones flattening Gaza right now.
The reality is that Hamas targets civilians and the IDF tries not to kill civilians, but it's hard since Hamas surrounds Al-Qassam with children.
 
The reality is that Hamas targets civilians and the IDF tries not to kill civilians, but it's hard since Hamas surrounds Al-Qassam with children.
What reality are you talking about? "IDF tries not to kill civilians"?? When they drop a bomb on a tented area where they had claimed was a "safe zone" and they kill 40 innocent people, how is that trying not to kill civilians?? When they have snipers that shoot at children, is that avoiding civilian deaths? When they bomb people praying, is that avoiding civilians deaths? They are as good at avoiding civilian deaths as Raygun is at breakdancing
 
The reality is that Hamas targets civilians and the IDF tries not to kill civilians, but it's hard since Hamas surrounds Al-Qassam with children.
Yeah, I'm not buying the "IDF tries not to kill civilians" part of this. Putting total blame on Hamas for the widespread killing is BS. There is plenty of blame to go around and Likud and the IDF have a lot of blood on their hands.
 
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