RaiGuy
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lol, you believe that? Israel shared an image of what they said was tunnel under then hospital, but it wasn’t even the right building. BBC News called them out on their bullshit.
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Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume
- Thread starter nycfan
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RaiGuy
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How many different accounts do you have?
It is well known that Hamas has tunnels under hospitals and civilian infrastructure in Gaza. Literally indisputable. The video you just posted seems to even confirm this. The bomb struck outside of the hospital and you can see the fire coming from the tunnel that was destroyed.
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RaiGuy
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The fire was coming from the crater created by the bomb. The area it hit was the courtyard in the middle of the hospital. Also, this is a hospital that has several foreign doctors (one of my friends from UNC was actually volunteering there a few months ago). Israel knows that there are foreign doctors there as it takes a lot of coordination with them to let them in.
However, let’s just say this one time Israel wasn’t lying about the tunnels. You think it’s fine to bomb civilians to get to an imaginary tunnel underneath?
Some people are just so gullible or put on blinders.
Well, for starters, if Israel wasn't lying about the tunnels then the tunnels aren't "imaginary". They are real. And everyone knows that they are real: Inside the tunnels of Gaza
With regard to your second question, that depends on the military value of whatever or whoever is in the tunnel being targeted. If you are just blowing up the tunnel to blow up the tunnel, I don't think collateral damage is warranted. If you have reason to believe that terrorists or weapons are in that particular section of the tunnel, then it is a cost-benefit analysis situation. It is unfortunate for the civilians of Gaza that Hamas has put tunnels under essentially every aspect of civilian infrastructure.
RaiGuy
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So if there was an alleged terrorist tunnel under your kid's school with maybe a terrorist in the tunnel, you would be fine if it got bombed while the kids were there because it's just unfortunate that the terrorist built a tunnel under it? Blowing up kids would be sad but justified?
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It is unfortunate for the civilians of Gaza that the Israelis are intent on genocide.
Of course I wouldn't be OK with my kids being blown up because a terrorist group built a bunker under their school. I'd be mad at the terrorist group for building a bunker under the school and I'd be mad at the enemy military for blowing up the school. Hamas uses Palestinian civilians as human shields and Israel doesn't give much care to Palestinian civilians. That's why the Palestinian civilians have it rough right now.
Unfortunately, in war nothing is ever perfect. This isn't 1860 or 1917 where armies simply line up and charge each other. We literally incinerated hundreds of thousands of civilians in a matter of days in Japan because that was a better option than a land invasion.
Fixed it.
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Fuck you. Don’t “fix” my words.
Happy to help.
RaiGuy
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So, tell me this. I have asked this from the start to pro-Israel supporters and have yet to get a clear answer. How does Israel win this? They keep saying that they won't stop until Hamas is destroyed, yet all they've done is made it easier for Hamas to recruit. Is the end game to completely destroy Gaza? Is it to kill everyone because there could be Hamas members amongst the people? How does it all end? Wars against guerilla groups are rarely successful. Just look at Vietnam and Afghanistan. When does it all end?
Israel keeps evacuating civilians into "safe zones" and then repeatedly bombs the safe zones. Why send them to areas that they claim has Hamas areas and then bomb them? You know why? Because they're making shit up. They aren't held accountable and people like you will justify every move they make because of Hamas. They have been bombing Gaza for nearly 20 months now, against an opponent that doesn't have a military, no jets or tanks. Where do you expect the people to hide? Nearly every area in Gaza has been bombed. Do you actually believe that Hamas was able to build tunnels under all of Gaza? Or that there are that many Hamas members spread out around all of Gaza? Use some common sense.
Good questions. How does Israel win this? I don't think either side can "win" in this current escalation. The best Israel can hope for is that Hamas's military wing is decimated and its ability to wage another 10/7-type attack against Israel, or to launch thousands of rockets into Israel, is destroyed. So far, I believe Israel has accomplished this. I think ideally a buffer zone between Gaza and Israel patrolled by international peacekeepers would be a good interim outcome, although I can't think of many countries that would jump up and down at the idea of sending armed forces to the Gaza Strip.
A long-term outcome ideal outcome would be similar to the Marshall Plan in Europe and Japan after WWII, where foreign investment in rebuilding Gaza is tied to the elimination of Hamas there. You said that Israel is likely radicalizing people through this war, but I don't believe that is as much of an issue as it is made out to be. Japanese soldiers were literally turning themselves into suicide bombers against Americans in World War II, and Germans fought us to the death and yet within a decade we were the best of friends. At the end of the day most people just want to live and live without excessive worries, and if given the option of peace and prosperity or revenge and continued destruction, most will choose the former.
Hamas's tunnel network in Gaza has been extensively covered. Yes, I believe that they have been able to build tunnels in every part of Gaza and this has been confirmed by media and foreign intelligence reports. This is not saying that there are tunnels under every building. That said, I don't believe there is a city or populated area in Gaza that doesn't have tunnels underneath.
4thgenheel
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again, there are @ 2 BILLION muslims on the planet.
your wording in that initial post was inappropriate and inflammatory and islamophobic, period.
ZenMode
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They aren't targeting civilians. The used "bunker buster" bombs, which are used for underground targets.
The question you should be asking is why Hamas is using international aid to build tunnels and why are they using civilian buildings, like hospitals, as military facilities.
Israeli 'bunker buster' bombs used in Gaza hospital strike, experts say
CCTV footage obtained and verified by the BBC shows the moment before impact and the immediate aftermath. Munitions experts told BBC Verify that the strikes and destruction are consistent with the use of so-called "bunker buster" bombs - designed to hit underground targets. BBC Verify's Merlyn...
www.bbc.com
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RaiGuy
Esteemed Member
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Ohh, I see. Those bombs magically avoid the people walking above ground to reach the bunkers. That makes it fine. They totally don't cause significant damage above ground. Wow, Israel is so thoughtful. Thank you, Israel.They aren't targeting civilians. The used "bunker buster" bombs, which are used for underground targets.
Israeli 'bunker buster' bombs used in Gaza hospital strike, experts say
CCTV footage obtained and verified by the BBC shows the moment before impact and the immediate aftermath. Munitions experts told BBC Verify that the strikes and destruction are consistent with the use of so-called "bunker buster" bombs - designed to hit underground targets. BBC Verify's Merlyn...
ZenMode
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@RaiGuy
Here's another question that I think you should be asking.. What is an acceptable number of civilian casualties at this point in the war? Given that Hamas killed a thousand civilians in 8 hours, using nothing more than knives and handheld guns, what, and your opinion, is an acceptable total number of civilian deaths in Gaza at this point?
Here's another question that I think you should be asking.. What is an acceptable number of civilian casualties at this point in the war? Given that Hamas killed a thousand civilians in 8 hours, using nothing more than knives and handheld guns, what, and your opinion, is an acceptable total number of civilian deaths in Gaza at this point?
At least they are guided and targeted, unlike the thousands of missiles that Hamas and PIJ have launched at Israeli civilians. Hell, one of those missiles even blew up a Palestinian hospital.
RaiGuy
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The answer to any question about "acceptable" civilian deaths should be 0. Even if there was a Hamas leader hiding underground, it is not worth killing dozens of people in a bombing to reach him. That makes no sense. And this isn't a once time thing, it's been happening for nearly 20 months. You also continue to focus on Oct 7th as the start date, but there were hundreds of Palestinians killed leading up to Oct 7th in 2023. Do they not matter?
RaiGuy
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Ah yes, how many of those missiles have actually killed any Israeli civilians? How much damage have those thousands of missiles caused? Now compare that to Israeli missiles. There is no comparison.
and lol at you still believing that it was one of those missiles that blew up a Palestinian hospital after Israel has bombed every hospital since then multiple times.