Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

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Oh look, that IDF strike on the “hospital” that Rai showed us a few days ago ended up taking out Hamas’s leadership. We’ve been told that these bunkers and tunnels don’t exist and that they are all conspiracies. I guess maybe he was just there getting a physical.

No one honestly questions the existence of the bunker complex. It was there since at least 2014. What's getting lost in the Sinwar news is that Abu Anas was taken out. That's a critical blow to Izz ad-Din al-Qasam.
 
So, the people who once cured Sinwar of brain cancer may actually be carefully targeting terrorist leaders and not civilians and maybe it's the terrorists who are the lying, evil POSs?
If you kill everyone in Gaza, you will also kill all of Hamas in Gaza. That doesn't make it right. And on the flip side, killing all of Hamas in Gaza is not a goal that justifies all the death and starvation and maiming and malnutrition. And trauma.

It's not only the dead or injured. Israel has destroyed an entire generation of Gazan children, most of whom will be psychologically scarred for life.

But good, glad we hit that bunker so that the top leadership is gone and the leaderships' deputies, who do most of the work anyway, will take over. Huge progress. Yay team.

And it's not fucking targeted.
 
So, the people who once cured Sinwar of brain cancer may actually be carefully targeting terrorist leaders and not civilians and maybe it's the terrorists who are the lying, evil POSs? 🤔
Well, he was in prison at the time, which means that Israel didn't violate his human rights by refusing to treat him. I guess that's good. It has nothing at all to do with what is happening now. It is also an incredibly low bar.
 
If you kill everyone in Gaza, you will also kill all of Hamas in Gaza. That doesn't make it right. And on the flip side, killing all of Hamas in Gaza is not a goal that justifies all the death and starvation and maiming and malnutrition. And trauma.

It's not only the dead or injured. Israel has destroyed an entire generation of Gazan children, most of whom will be psychologically scarred for life.

But good, glad we hit that bunker so that the top leadership is gone and the leaderships' deputies, who do most of the work anyway, will take over. Huge progress. Yay team.

And it's not fucking targeted.
If it wasn’t targeted, how did a bunker busting bomb happen to land precisely inside of a bunker that Hamas’s leadership was using at that very moment? You can’t possibly think we are that stupid.
 
No one honestly questions the existence of the bunker complex. It was there since at least 2014. What's getting lost in the Sinwar news is that Abu Anas was taken out. That's a critical blow to Izz ad-Din al-Qasam.
One poster here has been questioning the existence of the bunker complexes. He has some backup. He’s noticeably ignored the latest developments.
 
If you kill everyone in Gaza, you will also kill all of Hamas in Gaza.
Ok. It has nothing to do with what is happening in Gaza, but ok.
That doesn't make it right. And on the flip side, killing all of Hamas in Gaza is not a goal that justifies all the death and starvation and maiming and malnutrition. And trauma.
With the exception of denying aid, everything that is happening is normal in war. A war that Hamas started. I wonder how the children in Israel, who have been repeatedly driven to underground bunkers to hide from Hamas' missiles over the last 40 years, are impacted. I wonder how the children who watched their parents get murdered on 10/7 were impacted. How about the kids at the concert who watched their friends get mowed down by terrorist gun fire. How do you think they're feeling today?
It's not only the dead or injured. Israel has destroyed an entire generation of Gazan children, most of whom will be psychologically scarred for life.
Soldiers are often scarred for life because, again, war isn't pretty. Hamas should stop starting wars.
But good, glad we hit that bunker so that the top leadership is gone and the leaderships' deputies, who do most of the work anyway, will take over. Huge progress. Yay team.
And hopefully IDF kills them, also.
And it's not fucking targeted.

You can't make false claims true by repeating them. The evidence that Israel is targeting Hamas, while being careful of civilians, is clear.
 
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One poster here has been questioning the existence of the bunker complexes. He has some backup. He’s noticeably ignored the latest developments.
I understand. If you can get past his parroting of al-Maktab al-Siyasi talking points, I have found value in his perspective You just need to understand the frame of his or her experience, then move on. Revealing.
 
One poster here has been questioning the existence of the bunker complexes. He has some backup. He’s noticeably ignored the latest developments.
One poster is emotionally invested in what is happening in Gaza, which anyone can understand. That poster is getting bad information and is too close to the events to be objective.
 
Ok. It has nothing to do with what is happening in Gaza, but ok.

With the exception of denying aid, everything that is happening is normal in war. A war that Hamas started. I wonder how the children in Israel, who have been repeatedly driven to underground bunkers to hide from Hamas' missiles over the last 40 years, are impacted. I wonder how the children who watched their parents get murdered on 10/7 were impacted. How about the kids at the concert who watched their friends get mowed down by terrorist gun fire. How do you think they're feeling today?

Soldiers are often scarred for life because, again, war isn't pretty. Hamas should stop starting wars.

And hopefully IDF kills them, also.


You can't make false claims true by repeating them. The evidence that Israel is targeting Hamas, while being careful of civilians, is clear.
GFY with your both siding bullshit. And learn the meaning of words like "evidence," "clear," "targeting" and "careful" because you've misused every single one. But what do I know?

Not going to argue this. As usual, you have no clue but you think you're fucking God's gift. Just another Cliff Clavin wannabe.
 
I understand. If you can get past his parroting of al-Maktab al-Siyasi talking points, I have found value in his perspective You just need to understand the frame of his or her experience, then move on. Revealing.
Just because you name drop like this doesn't actually mean you know what's going on.
 
GFY with your both siding bullshit. And learn the meaning of words like "evidence," "clear," "targeting" and "careful" because you've misused every single one. But what do I know?

Not going to argue this. As usual, you have no clue but you think you're fucking God's gift. Just another Cliff Clavin wannabe.
You tell me what evidence you have that Israel is unconcerned about civilian casualties and I'll provide mine that's shows why I think they are. Deal?

From what I've seen, your evidence is (summarizing) "well, civilians are dead so Israel must be targeting them".
 
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If it wasn’t targeted, how did a bunker busting bomb happen to land precisely inside of a bunker that Hamas’s leadership was using at that very moment? You can’t possibly think we are that stupid.
Sigh. You're smarter than this. Let's think about things for a minute:

1. If you drop bombs everywhere, you will kill some bad guys. Duh. Jackie Manuel didn't shoot 0% from 3. He was in the 20s, IIRC. You could still make a highlight reel of him hitting threes, though.

In other words, the measure of "targeting" is not whether you hit a target. It's how often you miss. Does that make sense? Just think about it like Caleb Love and Cam Johnson. One of them makes 8 figures per year playing pro ball; the other is unlikely to get more than a cup of coffee in the league. It's not because Cam made more shots; it's because he missed so many fewer.

2. It is simultaneously possible that Israel is sometimes being careful and sometimes not. I would imagine that they are more careful with their bunker busters, as they are more expensive and in limited supply. Each one of those costs like $4-5M according to Google. Palestinian lives essentially have zero value to Israel, which might be why they are so indiscriminate with all other forms of violence -- the snipers, conventional bombs, artillery, etc. The bunker busters, on the other hand:

3. It's also possible that the orders from up high are to target and be careful, with a different reality on the ground. When the first videos of Israeli solders shooting kids point blank or killing aid convoys for fun came out, maybe you could attribute that to overeager soldiers. But Israel has not meaningfully disciplined anyone for these crimes (save possibly the attack on that one aid convoy), which is basically the same as commissioning them.
 
You tell me what evidence you have that Israel is unconcerned about civilian casualties and I'll provide mine that's shows why I think they are. Deal?
LOL. We've been doing that for months. This is what you do. You ignore what people write, and then you claim that they have no evidence, and then you ask them to present that evidence again and again and it never changes anything. No thanks.

You lose the vast majority of argument on this board, most of them in a humiliating fashion. That's in part because you take fights you can't possibly win, and of course you get smacked down by people who know things. And yet you keep going, I guess just to annoy people. You remind me of this:

 
Sigh. You're smarter than this. Let's think about things for a minute:

1. If you drop bombs everywhere, you will kill some bad guys. Duh. Jackie Manuel didn't shoot 0% from 3. He was in the 20s, IIRC. You could still make a highlight reel of him hitting threes, though.

In other words, the measure of "targeting" is not whether you hit a target. It's how often you miss. Does that make sense? Just think about it like Caleb Love and Cam Johnson. One of them makes 8 figures per year playing pro ball; the other is unlikely to get more than a cup of coffee in the league. It's not because Cam made more shots; it's because he missed so many fewer.

2. It is simultaneously possible that Israel is sometimes being careful and sometimes not. I would imagine that they are more careful with their bunker busters, as they are more expensive and in limited supply. Each one of those costs like $4-5M according to Google. Palestinian lives essentially have zero value to Israel, which might be why they are so indiscriminate with all other forms of violence -- the snipers, conventional bombs, artillery, etc. The bunker busters, on the other hand:

3. It's also possible that the orders from up high are to target and be careful, with a different reality on the ground. When the first videos of Israeli solders shooting kids point blank or killing aid convoys for fun came out, maybe you could attribute that to overeager soldiers. But Israel has not meaningfully disciplined anyone for these crimes (save possibly the attack on that one aid convoy), which is basically the same as commissioning them.
I think you raise some good points on the war as a whole, but I was talking specifically about the incident that I linked to earlier today. Rai posted a video of the bombing earlier this week and claimed that it was an example of Israel "bombing a hospital" for no reason. I mentioned that it looked like a bunker busting bomb was used to strike an underground facility and was assured by Rai that this was not the case. The news coming out today confirms that it was indeed the case, and that despite Rai's claims otherwise, Hamas does have bunkers and tunnels all through Gaza under hospitals and other civilian infrastructure.
 
LOL. We've been doing that for months. This is what you do. You ignore what people write, and then you claim that they have no evidence, and then you ask them to present that evidence again and again and it never changes anything. No thanks.

You lose the vast majority of argument on this board, most of them in a humiliating fashion. That's in part because you take fights you can't possibly win, and of course you get smacked down by people who know things. And yet you keep going, I guess just to annoy people. You remind me of this:
We have been doing it for months and it always comes down to "civilians are dead, so they must be targeting them". The actual number of dead, when you consider the weapons available to Israel and the population density in Gaza and the fact that terrorists want to maximize civilian deaths, don't reflect targeting. It reflects the opposite. Israel, if they were simply indifferent about civilian deaths, and just blowing up civilians areas to kill a few terrorists, would have hit 50k dead in a matter of days.

Plus, we already know, IOW it's a fact, that Israel tries to warn civilians. I mean, it's a fact. We've seen the confirmation from doctors in the hospitals they call. I've seen YouTube videos of Palestinians playing the phone calls warning them. I've seen the pamphlets being dropped.

So, that's my evidence.

Now, is Israel perfect in their attempts to minimize civilian deaths? No. But that isn't the claim being made. The claim is that they are targeting civilians which, until evidence is provided, is baseless.
 
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We have been doing it for months and it always comes down to "civilians are dead, so they must be targeting them". The actual number of dead, when you consider the weapons available to Israel and the population density in Gaza and the fact that terrorists want to maximize civilian deaths, don't reflect targeting. It reflects the opposite. Israel, if they were simply indifferent about civilian deaths, and just blowing up civilians areas to kill a few terrorists, would have hit 50k dead in a matter of days.

Plus, we already know, IOW it's a fact, that Israel tries to warn civilians. I mean, it's a fact. We've seen the confirmation from doctors in the hospitals they call. I've seen YouTube videos of Palestinians playing the phone calls warning them. I've seen the pamphlets being dropped.

So, that's my evidence.
Bully for you. That evidence does not remotely prove what you think it does. Have fun playing front hand back hand. I ain't playing.
 
One poster here has been questioning the existence of the bunker complexes. He has some backup. He’s noticeably ignored the latest developments.
If you could comprehend what I post, you would know that I said that there aren't bunkers under every hospital, school, etc... that Israel targeted. They also did plant evidence and lied about other bunkers. Then, there's the fact that Israel, themselves, had built a tunnel system underneath a hospital in Gaza when they were occupying it Bunkers Under Gaza Hospital Were Built by Israel, Former Israel PM Says

So, Israel got lucky with one bomb and took out Hamas leaders. Why can't they be more precise like this one attack?
Instead, in the past week this is the number Palestinian civilians killed or hurt by Israeli airstrikes:

5/15: 82 killed, 152 injured
5/16: 109 killed, 216 injured
5/17: 153 killed, 459 injured
5/18: 67 killed, 361 injured
5/19: 136 killed, 364 injured
5/20: 98 killed, 290 injured
5/21: 82 killed, 262 injured

Total: 727 killed, 2,104 injured

I see no mention of those in your posts. You are calling me out for not responding (I have been busy and was not ignoring it), but yet your silence has been deafening about the Palestinians killed. But yet again, you prove time and time again that Palestinian lives do not matter to you. They are just collateral damage.
 
Bully for you. That evidence does not remotely prove what you think it does. Have fun playing front hand back hand. I ain't playing.
Ok. You don't have to play. If you come up with anything to support your claim, I'll be here.
 
If you could comprehend what I post, you would know that I said that there aren't bunkers under every hospital, school, etc... that Israel targeted. They also did plant evidence and lied about other bunkers. Then, there's the fact that Israel, themselves, had built a tunnel system underneath a hospital in Gaza when they were occupying it Bunkers Under Gaza Hospital Were Built by Israel, Former Israel PM Says

So, Israel got lucky with one bomb and took out Hamas leaders. Why can't they be more precise like this one attack?
Instead, in the past week this is the number Palestinian civilians killed or hurt by Israeli airstrikes:

5/15: 82 killed, 152 injured
5/16: 109 killed, 216 injured
5/17: 153 killed, 459 injured
5/18: 67 killed, 361 injured
5/19: 136 killed, 364 injured
5/20: 98 killed, 290 injured
5/21: 82 killed, 262 injured

Total: 727 killed, 2,104 injured

I see no mention of those in your posts. You are calling me out for not responding (I have been busy and was not ignoring it), but yet your silence has been deafening about the Palestinians killed. But yet again, you prove time and time again that Palestinian lives do not matter to you. They are just collateral damage.
Does who built the bunkers really matter if they're being used by terrorists to protect themselves from Israel?
 
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