Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

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superrific said:
Sigh. You're smarter than this. Let's think about things for a minute:

1. If you drop bombs everywhere, you will kill some bad guys. Duh. Jackie Manuel didn't shoot 0% from 3. He was in the 20s, IIRC. You could still make a highlight reel of him hitting threes, though.

In other words, the measure of "targeting" is not whether you hit a target. It's how often you miss. Does that make sense? Just think about it like Caleb Love and Cam Johnson. One of them makes 8 figures per year playing pro ball; the other is unlikely to get more than a cup of coffee in the league. It's not because Cam made more shots; it's because he missed so many fewer.

2. It is simultaneously possible that Israel is sometimes being careful and sometimes not. I would imagine that they are more careful with their bunker busters, as they are more expensive and in limited supply. Each one of those costs like $4-5M according to Google. Palestinian lives essentially have zero value to Israel, which might be why they are so indiscriminate with all other forms of violence -- the snipers, conventional bombs, artillery, etc. The bunker busters, on the other hand:

3. It's also possible that the orders from up high are to target and be careful, with a different reality on the ground. When the first videos of Israeli solders shooting kids point blank or killing aid convoys for fun came out, maybe you could attribute that to overeager soldiers. But Israel has not meaningfully disciplined anyone for these crimes (save possibly the attack on that one aid convoy), which is basically the same as commissioning them.
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I think you raise some good points on the war as a whole, but I was talking specifically about the incident that I linked to earlier today. Rai posted a video of the bombing earlier this week and claimed that it was an example of Israel "bombing a hospital" for no reason. I mentioned that it looked like a bunker busting bomb was used to strike an underground facility and was assured by Rai that this was not the case. The news coming out today confirms that it was indeed the case, and that despite Rai's claims otherwise, Hamas does have bunkers and tunnels all through Gaza under hospitals and other civilian infrastructure.
 
superrific said:
LOL. We've been doing that for months. This is what you do. You ignore what people write, and then you claim that they have no evidence, and then you ask them to present that evidence again and again and it never changes anything. No thanks.

You lose the vast majority of argument on this board, most of them in a humiliating fashion. That's in part because you take fights you can't possibly win, and of course you get smacked down by people who know things. And yet you keep going, I guess just to annoy people. You remind me of this:
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We have been doing it for months and it always comes down to "civilians are dead, so they must be targeting them". The actual number of dead, when you consider the weapons available to Israel and the population density in Gaza and the fact that terrorists want to maximize civilian deaths, don't reflect targeting. It reflects the opposite. Israel, if they were simply indifferent about civilian deaths, and just blowing up civilians areas to kill a few terrorists, would have hit 50k dead in a matter of days.

Plus, we already know, IOW it's a fact, that Israel tries to warn civilians. I mean, it's a fact. We've seen the confirmation from doctors in the hospitals they call. I've seen YouTube videos of Palestinians playing the phone calls warning them. I've seen the pamphlets being dropped.

So, that's my evidence.

Now, is Israel perfect in their attempts to minimize civilian deaths? No. But that isn't the claim being made. The claim is that they are targeting civilians which, until evidence is provided, is baseless.
 
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ZenMode said:
We have been doing it for months and it always comes down to "civilians are dead, so they must be targeting them". The actual number of dead, when you consider the weapons available to Israel and the population density in Gaza and the fact that terrorists want to maximize civilian deaths, don't reflect targeting. It reflects the opposite. Israel, if they were simply indifferent about civilian deaths, and just blowing up civilians areas to kill a few terrorists, would have hit 50k dead in a matter of days.

Plus, we already know, IOW it's a fact, that Israel tries to warn civilians. I mean, it's a fact. We've seen the confirmation from doctors in the hospitals they call. I've seen YouTube videos of Palestinians playing the phone calls warning them. I've seen the pamphlets being dropped.

So, that's my evidence.
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Bully for you. That evidence does not remotely prove what you think it does. Have fun playing front hand back hand. I ain't playing.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
One poster here has been questioning the existence of the bunker complexes. He has some backup. He’s noticeably ignored the latest developments.
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If you could comprehend what I post, you would know that I said that there aren't bunkers under every hospital, school, etc... that Israel targeted. They also did plant evidence and lied about other bunkers. Then, there's the fact that Israel, themselves, had built a tunnel system underneath a hospital in Gaza when they were occupying it Bunkers Under Gaza Hospital Were Built by Israel, Former Israel PM Says

So, Israel got lucky with one bomb and took out Hamas leaders. Why can't they be more precise like this one attack?
Instead, in the past week this is the number Palestinian civilians killed or hurt by Israeli airstrikes:

5/15: 82 killed, 152 injured
5/16: 109 killed, 216 injured
5/17: 153 killed, 459 injured
5/18: 67 killed, 361 injured
5/19: 136 killed, 364 injured
5/20: 98 killed, 290 injured
5/21: 82 killed, 262 injured

Total: 727 killed, 2,104 injured

I see no mention of those in your posts. You are calling me out for not responding (I have been busy and was not ignoring it), but yet your silence has been deafening about the Palestinians killed. But yet again, you prove time and time again that Palestinian lives do not matter to you. They are just collateral damage.
 
RaiGuy said:
If you could comprehend what I post, you would know that I said that there aren't bunkers under every hospital, school, etc... that Israel targeted. They also did plant evidence and lied about other bunkers. Then, there's the fact that Israel, themselves, had built a tunnel system underneath a hospital in Gaza when they were occupying it Bunkers Under Gaza Hospital Were Built by Israel, Former Israel PM Says

So, Israel got lucky with one bomb and took out Hamas leaders. Why can't they be more precise like this one attack?
Instead, in the past week this is the number Palestinian civilians killed or hurt by Israeli airstrikes:

5/15: 82 killed, 152 injured
5/16: 109 killed, 216 injured
5/17: 153 killed, 459 injured
5/18: 67 killed, 361 injured
5/19: 136 killed, 364 injured
5/20: 98 killed, 290 injured
5/21: 82 killed, 262 injured

Total: 727 killed, 2,104 injured

I see no mention of those in your posts. You are calling me out for not responding (I have been busy and was not ignoring it), but yet your silence has been deafening about the Palestinians killed. But yet again, you prove time and time again that Palestinian lives do not matter to you. They are just collateral damage.
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Does who built the bunkers really matter if they're being used by terrorists to protect themselves from Israel?
 
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