Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

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It's a circle with no end until one side is completely destroyed. Hamas carries out a terrorist attack, and Isreal responds by killing as many Palestinians as possible and say they are just defending themselves, which makes Hamas want to carry out more attacks, and round and round it goes.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Of course they don’t. They are simply expected to by many. A bar that no other country seems to have.
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Show me one person anywhere who has said that Israel should be expected to do nothing. That person does not exist. Nobody has the opinion you are ascribing to them.

Is it too much to ask that you accurately represent the views of the people you criticize? I do that. Why can't you? Why must you equate, "don't kill 100K citizens with a combination of bombs, shootings, starvation and disease" with "do nothing." Those are two extreme positions, between which exists a panoply of reasonable responses. For instance, the crippling of Hezbollah which, to the best of my knowledge, has not been criticized except perhaps by Hezbollah.
 
ZenMode said:
Very unlikely to happen because the majority support the total destruction of Israel. Even if things continue to get progressively worse in Gaza, I bet most people will blame Israel, not their own government who brought this on them.
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That’s the thing I struggle with. Palestinians want the total destruction of Israel but almost have Hamas as cover. We can’t control them. We won’t like that they are in charge. In reality, they are ok with the end mission.
 
superrific said:
Show me one person anywhere who has said that Israel should be expected to do nothing. That person does not exist. Nobody has the opinion you are ascribing to them.

Is it too much to ask that you accurately represent the views of the people you criticize? I do that. Why can't you? Why must you equate, "don't kill 100K citizens with a combination of bombs, shootings, starvation and disease" with "do nothing." Those are two extreme positions, between which exists a panoply of reasonable responses. For instance, the crippling of Hezbollah which, to the best of my knowledge, has not been criticized except perhaps by Hezbollah.
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I was referring to the insistence that Israel was not abiding by the pre-10/7 ceasefire due to the amount of Palestinians killed prior to 10/7. There isn’t much of a ceasefire if one side is launching thousands of missiles at the other side. Of course the other side is going to respond, and vice versa.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Of course they don’t. They are simply expected to by many. A bar that no other country seems to have.
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I would say that Israel is permitted to respond, but not in a way that would allow them to thoroughly win.

I'm not necessarily endorsing the method of victory, but the US fought a brutal war against Japan and, I would say, thoroughly won. Japan is now an ally. There's no chance of that happening in Israel's situation as long as Hamas is in power, which makes thorough victory that much more important.

Israel is, or at least has been, disallowed from even trying thoroughly defeating Hamas. It seems they are finally resisting international pressures and doing what is best for Israel and its citizens.
 
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ZZLPHeels said:
I was referring to the insistence that Israel was not abiding by the pre-10/7 ceasefire due to the amount of Palestinians killed prior to 10/7. There isn’t much of a ceasefire if one side is launching thousands of missiles at the other side. Of course the other side is going to respond, and vice versa.
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You're conflating two very different things. Lots of those prior-10/7 deaths were in the West Bank, were instigated by aggressive Israeli settlers, and had nothing to do with Gaza at all.
 
nycfan said:

New U.S. Plan to Pause Gaza War Draws Hamas Criticism​

The militant group wants agreement to include a commitment to halt the fighting​


🎁 —> https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-ea...47?st=f16Vwb&reflink=mobilewebshare_permalink

“… The agreement calls for Hamas to release 10 of the roughly 20 hostages Israel believes are still alive and the bodies of another 19 within the first week of the deal in exchange for a 60-day cease-fire and the release of Palestinians held by Israel, according to a draft reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.

The draft says President Trump would announce the deal if an agreement is reached, and envoy Steve Witkoffwould preside over the talks.

The U.S. said Israel has signed off on the proposal. Hamas has said it is studying it, but Hamas officials have criticized its lack of a commitment to halt the fighting or clarify the withdrawal of Israeli forces….”
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Neither Bibi nor Hamas want peace. War is their raison d'etre.
 
Lando said:
Israel is working towards complexly destroying Gaza and the West Bank. Once the Palestinians are dead or expelled they can move on to a new cycle of violence: purging Arabs from Israeli society.
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Who can get who first. I think Americans are clueless when it comes to this stuff. When you have sides who believe they must destroy the others then I don’t know how peace is ever achieved. When they had the Israeli babies paraded in Gaza and little kids were celebrating seeing the dead bodies, how can that ever be undone?
 
superrific said:
You're conflating two very different things. Lots of those prior-10/7 deaths were in the West Bank, were instigated by aggressive Israeli settlers, and had nothing to do with Gaza at all.
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And has nothing to do with IDF or the Israeli government.
 
ZenMode said:
And has nothing to do with IDF or the Israeli government.
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Oh, but it does. Here's how it goes down:

1. Israeli settlers show up on land owned by Palestinians, informing them of their intent to take the land and will the Palestinians please leave. Well, not the settlers themselves -- their representatives.

2. When the Palestinians predictably refuse, the settlers go to the Israeli government to get what amounts to official permission to take the land. Keep in mind that this is unlawful, as the land is owned by Palestinians and is not under the proper jurisdiction of the Israeli government.

3. They show up with the illegal transfer documents, along with the IDF or other Israeli government security forces.

4. If the owners of the land refuse to leave, they are roughed up by some combination of the settlers and the military. If the Palestinians try to defend themselves, the security forces open fire. Often, it's not the landowners who get killed but crowds who jeer the illegal actions. Lots of shootings into angry but peaceful crowds.

5. In most of these cases, the Palestinians are completely unarmed, or the IDF has disarmed them (the landowners primarily). The deaths are of people who pose no threat to anyone there. They do, however, insult the Israelis and that, apparently, is enough to warrant a death sentence as their land gets stolen.

6. In other cases, the military doesn't get involved because the government won't grant the permission. I don't know why not; I think it's usually some diplomatic pressure but I don't really know. In any event, the settlers then take matters into their own hands and raid the residences on the land heavily armed. The result is the same: dead Palestinians. Israel then refuses to prosecute the settlers or even make them pay a fine or even prevent them from taking the land whose inhabitants they murdered.

If you don't think the Israeli government is implicated here -- I mean, whatever dude. There's a reason why virtually the whole world condemns these illegal takings and killings on the West Bank, and it's not fucking anti-semitism. Anti-muslim sentiment is far stronger in Europe than anti-Jewish sentiment and yet.
 
Calheel said:
is that just a feeling you have or is there some data to back that up?
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Data. I read about this a while back, but it's also quite evident. The successful nationalist parties are often expressly anti-Muslim and they do well for that reason. Meloni didn't get elected because she went after Jews. She got elected because she went after immigrants, especially Muslims from their south.
 
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