Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

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Zoo_View said:
Undoubtedly, an Hamas regiment was sheltering behind the water tanker.
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Incorrect. Their sophisticated geomapping system confirmed a tunnel ran beneath the tanker. What more could the most sophisticated intelligence apparatus in the world have done? As we’ve seen in 100% of the hospitals in Gaza, and multiple refugee encampments , the most sophisticated intelligence apparatus in the world doesn’t have much choice but to bomb.
 


As some one who very much supported Israel’s right to defend itself after Oct 7 but also was wry concerned about the risks of supporting the likes of Ben-Gvir, Smotrich and Bibi in anything, I am ashamed how long it took me to comprehend how bad the Israeli response became.

And yet I remain overwhelmed with shock that so many people keep disregarding the horror inflicted on Palestinians in Gaza. Even after I became fully aware of how far they might press this, I remain shocked daily at how much worse it has become.
 
www.theguardian.com

Our Médecins Sans Frontières staff are being killed in Gaza. Why are UK ministers enabling that? | Natalie Roberts

Britain has a duty to act morally, and stop supporting this genocide, says Médecins Sans Frontières UK executive director Dr Natalie Roberts
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
  • Dr Natalie Roberts is the executive director of Médecins Sans Frontières UK


Our colleague Abdullah Hammad was killed last week by Israeli forces as he waited to collect flour from an aid truck in Khan Younis. He is the 12th Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) colleague to have been killed in Gaza since October 2023. The Israeli-US food distribution scheme forces people in Gaza to choose between starvation and risking their life for minimal supplies. With more than 500 people killed and nearly 4,000 wounded while seeking food, this scheme has had the effect of luring desperate people in with aid, only for them to be slaughtered by the Israeli armed forces.

This is part of the genocide that is being committed in Gaza. And the UK government is complicit.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
RaiGuy. What happens when European-Palestinians are killed? I seriously don't know. Do they ever get killed? Are there a lot of Palestinian Italians or Palestinian British? And when they get killed, what does in that country do and do the Israelis even care?

ETA and I should say in the West Bank by the Israeli settlers.
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Raiguy. Did you see this? I'm not trying to be a jerk. I generally don't know if there are Palestinians with dual citizenship from other countries and if there are, what happens when their citizens are murdered. Biden didn't do much. Trump does even less.

I was wondering if other countries are facing these decisions and what they do and what Israel's response is if you know.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Raiguy. Did you see this? I'm not trying to be a jerk. I generally don't know if there are Palestinians with dual citizenship from other countries and if there are, what happens when their citizens are murdered. Biden didn't do much. Trump does even less.

I was wondering if other countries are facing these decisions and what they do and what Israel's response is if you know.
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Sorry, I was traveling the last few days and totally missed that. There are many dual citizens, but yeah, not much is ever mentioned when one of them is injured or killed. In this latest killing, this was a 20 year old from Florida that was visiting relatives in the West Bank. He and his cousin were attacked by a mob of Israeli settlers, and then, the settlers wouldn't allow paramedics to reach him until it was too late. It's not the first time and, unfortunately, won't be the last time crimes like this happen. The west turns its head when it happens and the settlers get no punishment from Israel (and are usually backed up by "moral" Israeli soldiers).
 
RaiGuy said:
Sorry, I was traveling the last few days and totally missed that. There are many dual citizens, but yeah, not much is ever mentioned when one of them is injured or killed. In this latest killing, this was a 20 year old from Florida that was visiting relatives in the West Bank. He and his cousin were attacked by a mob of Israeli settlers, and then, the settlers wouldn't allow paramedics to reach him until it was too late. It's not the first time and, unfortunately, won't be the last time crimes like this happen. The west turns its head when it happens and the settlers get no punishment from Israel (and are usually backed up by "moral" Israeli soldiers).
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I hear about it with Americans with some regularity like two or three times a year but never hear about it with other country's citizens. Maybe that's because I mostly consume US news.

What I'm really trying to understand is what happens when Israelis murder say a British or a French dual citizen? Are the settlers or IDF charged and convicted or is it just another "investigation"? Are there sanctions? Diplomatic protests?
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I hear about it with Americans with some regularity like two or three times a year but never hear about it with other country's citizens. Maybe that's because I mostly consume US news.

What I'm really trying to understand is what happens when Israelis murder say a British or a French dual citizen? Are the settlers or IDF charged and convicted or is it just another "investigation"? Are there sanctions? Diplomatic protests?
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Mostly, nothing happens. In 2022, an Israeli sniper killed Palestinian-American journalist Shireen Abu Akleh (while she was clearly wearing clothes identifying her as a journalist), and Israel supposedly investigated the situation and dismissed it. There are countless examples like this where either Israeli soldiers or settlers kill dual citizens (or just straight up American citizens), but nothing happens.
 
RaiGuy said:
Mostly, nothing happens. In 2022, an Israeli sniper killed Palestinian-American journalist Shireen Abu Akleh (while she was clearly wearing clothes identifying her as a journalist), and Israel supposedly investigated the situation and dismissed it. There are countless examples like this where either Israeli soldiers or settlers kill dual citizens (or just straight up American citizens), but nothing happens.
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I'm not asking the question clearly. I'm pretty aware of what happens when Israelis kill American citizens, ie nothing, but wondered what happened when they shoot citizens of other countries if you know.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I'm not asking the question clearly. I'm pretty aware of what happens when Israelis kill American citizens, ie nothing, but wondered what happened when they shoot citizens of other countries if you know.
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Same thing. They rarely ever punish the murderers.
 
RaiGuy said:
Same thing. They rarely ever punish the murderers.
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So do you know if other countries do anything differently like sanction them or boycott their goods or anything else to put pressure on Israel?

Just trying to imagine some way that Israel might change if they come under outside pressure even with a partner like the US that is somewhere between a cheerleader and a helpless enabler depending on the administration.
 
JERUSALEM, July 13 (Reuters) - At least eight Palestinians, most of them children, were killed and more than a dozen were wounded in central Gaza when they went to collect water on Sunday, local officials said, in an Israeli strike which the military said missed its target.

The Israeli military said the missile had intended to hit an Islamic Jihad militant in the area but that a malfunction had caused it to fall "dozens of metres from the target".

 
gtyellowjacket said:
So do you know if other countries do anything differently like sanction them or boycott their goods or anything else to put pressure on Israel?

Just trying to imagine some way that Israel might change if they come under outside pressure even with a partner like the US that is somewhere between a cheerleader and a helpless enabler depending on the administration.
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I don't think pressure from other countries really matter to them because they get everything they want, and some, from the US.
 
ZenMode said:
I'll just note, as I have before, that with ALL of the cries for a ceasefire and cries about civilian death/genocide, very few on the left are screaming for Hamas to release the hostages. It's all finger-pointing directed at Israel.
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