Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

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superrific said:
After a bit of research, I uncovered a couple of other examples. Nigeria's starvation campaign against Biafra in the late 60s. And to some degree the Ethopian government in the early to mid 80s. So the complete list of intentional starvations -- at least complete to my knowledge -- is:

Mao
Stalin
Biafra
Darfur
Ethopia
Netanyahu.

That is bleak. But Hamas won't return two hostages so it's all OK.
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I had forgotten about Biafra. Yes, the pictures that are starting to come out of Gaza are similar to those we saw from Biafra. Israeli actions in Gaza are totally inexcusable. Especially from a people who were victims of perhaps the greatest example of genocide in human history.
 

Washington Struggles to Rein In an Emboldened Israel​

Trump administration has expressed frustration with Israeli actions in recent days​


🎁 —> https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-ea...4?st=uwdRra&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

“… “The fundamental change that has to be recognized in addressing the future of the Middle East is that Israel is now the strongest power in the Middle East,” said Amos Hochstein, who was a senior adviser under President Joe Biden. “They are the absolute, overwhelming, dominant military hegemon of the Middle East. Like it or hate it, it’s fact; there is no real counterweight.”

“Ironically, that is not necessarily good news for Israel or the U.S.,” Hochstein said, adding that Israel’s strength is leading it to overreach, prolonging its wars in Gaza and beyond.

… The tensions over the recent bombings in Syria and Gaza in part stem from mixed U.S. messaging and Israeli misunderstandings, said Dan Shapiro, who served as U.S. ambassador to Israel under President Barack Obama.

… A senior administration official said the White House coordinates closely with Israel and has considerable influence over Netanyahu because the prime minister knows that “the United States literally is the sole reason the state of Israel exists.”…”
 
nycfan said:

Washington Struggles to Rein In an Emboldened Israel​

Trump administration has expressed frustration with Israeli actions in recent days​


🎁 —> https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-ea...4?st=uwdRra&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

“… “The fundamental change that has to be recognized in addressing the future of the Middle East is that Israel is now the strongest power in the Middle East,” said Amos Hochstein, who was a senior adviser under President Joe Biden. “They are the absolute, overwhelming, dominant military hegemon of the Middle East. Like it or hate it, it’s fact; there is no real counterweight.”

“Ironically, that is not necessarily good news for Israel or the U.S.,” Hochstein said, adding that Israel’s strength is leading it to overreach, prolonging its wars in Gaza and beyond.

… The tensions over the recent bombings in Syria and Gaza in part stem from mixed U.S. messaging and Israeli misunderstandings, said Dan Shapiro, who served as U.S. ambassador to Israel under President Barack Obama.

… A senior administration official said the White House coordinates closely with Israel and has considerable influence over Netanyahu because the prime minister knows that “the United States literally is the sole reason the state of Israel exists.”…”
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Bibi understands US politics and how that enabled him with a more distrustful but mostly deferential Biden team. And he pretty clearly sees Trump as Putin sees Trump, as a preening paper tiger.
 
Crazy how if things are as bad as they are said to be in Gaza that Hamas won't surrender. They may be the only people that hate the Palestinians more than the Israelis do.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Crazy how if things are as bad as they are said to be in Gaza that Hamas won't surrender. They may be the only people that hate the Palestinians more than the Israelis do.
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Well, would you surrender if your enemies will rape you the same way regardless? IDF is not going to stop doing what it's doing regardless of Hamas. As any reasonable person can plainly see, the terror campaign waged against the Palestinian population has absolutely nothing to do with defeating Hamas.

You're just going to have to accept, at some point, that this is in fact a genocide. The evidence is overwhelming, as nycfan's links show (which of course present only a tiny fraction of that evidence).
 
superrific said:
Well, would you surrender if your enemies will rape you the same way regardless? IDF is not going to stop doing what it's doing regardless of Hamas. As any reasonable person can plainly see, the terror campaign waged against the Palestinian population has absolutely nothing to do with defeating Hamas.

You're just going to have to accept, at some point, that this is in fact a genocide. The evidence is overwhelming, as nycfan's links show (which of course present only a tiny fraction of that evidence).
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Yes, I would surrender if I had been beaten and the people my government was supposed to represent were suffering needlessly because of my actions. Hamas should take a lesson from 1945 Japan. Know when you are defeated. Release the hostages, surrender, and the war is over.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Yes, I would surrender if I had been beaten and the people my government was supposed to represent were suffering needlessly because of my actions. Hamas should take a lesson from 1945 Japan. Know when you are defeated. Release the hostages, surrender, and the war is over.
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1. Palestinians are not suffering because of Hamas.
2. It is clear that Israel will not be deterred by releasing the hostages or surrendering,.

Think about what you are saying: that it's acceptable to cause mass starvation and malnourishment, even of children!, to rescue a couple of hostages. That's insane, but then again, you seem to have absolutely no issues with indiscriminate violence so long as you can make some claim to self-defense, no matter how attenuated and generally implausible.

Israel is run by people who are actually establishing "from the river to the sea" and are killing people by the hundreds of thousands to achieve that goal. The thing you fear hypothetically from Hamas is being conducted by Israel on a scale immensely higher than Hamas could ever hope to achieve.

There is no justification for intentional starvation. Even Ross Douthat (!!) has admitted Israel's actions are unjust. Again, you are defending a regime that is more like Stalin and Mao than any western democracy ever.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Yes, I would surrender if I had been beaten and the people my government was supposed to represent were suffering needlessly because of my actions. Hamas should take a lesson from 1945 Japan. Know when you are defeated. Release the hostages, surrender, and the war is over.
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I don’t believe that for a second. The ethnic cleansing will continue with or without Hamas. The Israeli government is committed to genocide.
 
superrific said:
2. It is clear that Israel will not be deterred by releasing the hostages or surrendering,.

Think about what you are saying: that it's acceptable to cause mass starvation and malnourishment, even of children!, to rescue a couple of hostages. That's insane, but then again, you seem to have absolutely no issues with indiscriminate violence so long as you can make some claim to self-defense, no matter how attenuated and generally implausible.

Israel is run by people who are actually establishing "from the river to the sea" and are killing people by the hundreds of thousands to achieve that goal. The thing you fear hypothetically from Hamas is being conducted by Israel on a scale immensely higher than Hamas could ever hope to achieve.

There is no justification for intentional starvation. Even Ross Douthat (!!) has admitted Israel's actions are unjust. Again, you are defending a regime that is more like Stalin and Mao than any western democracy ever.
Click to expand...

Number 2 is not clear. If Hamas surrenders and releases the hostages, the war is over. Hamas refuses to surrender, because Hamas loves dead Palestinians even more than the Israelis do. Starving kids are just another fundraiser for Hamas. The same people that strap suicide bombs to 10 year-olds with Down's Syndrome and send them to checkpoints don't give a shit about civilian deaths. They encourage them.

In no means am I saying that mass starvation is acceptable for any reason. It isn't. But Hamas has been beaten. Their people are suffering. Any "humane" or sensible government would have surrendered long ago. Hamas refuses to do so, even though it has no path to victory. Hamas doesn't care about the Palestinians.
 
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