Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

[farce©]

Nothing like it. I’m not calling for the extermination of an entire race of people. I’m calling for the surrender of Hamas. It seems to me that you are arguing that every single Palestinian is a member of Hamas. I don’t believe that to be true.

Well, it doesn’t matter what you are calling for. Israeli government ministers (Smotrich) and Knesset members (Eliyahu) are calling for Palestinians in Gaza to be “wiped out.” They are telling us who they are and what they plan to do. Listen to what they say and watch what they are doing. Their intentions are not hard to discern.

“The government is racing ahead for Gaza to be wiped out,” Eliyahu told Haredi radio station Kol Barama. “Thank God, we are wiping out this evil. We are pushing this population that has been educated on ‘Mein Kampf.'” Eliyahu said that Gaza will be cleared for Jewish settlement and that Jewish towns won’t be “fenced in inside cantons.”

“The declaration on Tuesday by the finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich vowed that “Gaza will be entirely destroyed” as a result of an Israeli military victory, and that its Palestinian population will “leave in great numbers to third countries”, raising fears of ethnic cleansing in the occupied territory.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

You're calling for the "surrender" of Hamas, even if it means torturing and killing, (a.k.a, "exterminating") every single Palestinian in the process. That sounds like genocide, my friend. Rationalize it as you wish. My conscience couldn't live with such a monstrous, purposeful choice.

Can you point out exactly where I said what you are accusing me of? I have scoured all of my posts on this thread and can’t find an example of me saying anything like that.

 

[nycfan]

IMO, the Israeli government deserves no credit for this — they just want to maintain an equilibrium of food insecurity that nonetheless staves off mass starvation that would undermine Western and ME disinterest* in their relocation plans.

*ability to look the other way

 

[ZZLPHeels]

Well, it doesn’t matter what you are calling for. Israeli government ministers (Smotrich) and Knesset members (Eliyahu) are calling for Palestinians in Gaza to be “wiped out.” They are telling us who they are and what they plan to do. Listen to what they say and watch what they are doing. Their intentions are not hard to discern.

“The government is racing ahead for Gaza to be wiped out,” Eliyahu told Haredi radio station Kol Barama. “Thank God, we are wiping out this evil. We are pushing this population that has been educated on ‘Mein Kampf.'” Eliyahu said that Gaza will be cleared for Jewish settlement and that Jewish towns won’t be “fenced in inside cantons.”

“The declaration on Tuesday by the finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich vowed that “Gaza will be entirely destroyed” as a result of an Israeli military victory, and that its Palestinian population will “leave in great numbers to third countries”, raising fears of ethnic cleansing in the occupied territory.

They are blowhards who are not in control. Regardless, that rhetoric is irresponsible and should be condemned.

 

[Patb78]

IMO, the Israeli government deserves no credit for this — they just want to maintain an equilibrium of food insecurity that nonetheless staves off mass starvation that would undermine Western and ME disinterest* in their relocation plans.

*ability to look the other way

Agree. Allowing aid in here and there isn’t going to do much to alleviate the plight of the Palestinians. There needs to be a constant flow of supplies the quantity of which meets the needs of the Palestinians. Just look at the Berlin airlift. The Allies kept up a constant stream of supplies to West Berlin. Such an effort is what is needed in Gaza. Otherwise, a large number of people are going to starve to death. There’s no getting around that.

 

[superrific]

Eliminating an internationally recognized terrorist group that has killed thousands of innocent civilians, that is sworn in its charter to your people's genocide, that has launched thousands upon thousands of missiles at your population centers, and that intentionally places the civilians under its own care at risk is by definition a just war. Without 10/7, this war doesn't happen. Hamas miscalculated and the Palestinians have paid the price.

Why did the US show restraint in Afghanistan after 9/11? Al-Q was even more dangerous than Hamas; Afghanistan was a base of operations for them, and yet we didn't kill 15% of the population and starve the remainder. Why is that? Were we just pussies? Weak losers?

It is clear from this thread and Breanna Taylor that you either have no moral compass or it is extremely warped. This was a just war for like 6 months. It long ago ceased to be just.

 

[superrific]

They are blowhards who are not in control. Regardless, that rhetoric is irresponsible and should be condemned.

I don't think you understand how Israeli politics works. Smotrich is very much in control. He walks from the government and the coalition falls. He's like Manchin was for the Senate. Maybe not the formal leader, but nobody can cross him and expect to succeed.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

Why did the US show restraint in Afghanistan after 9/11? Al-Q was even more dangerous than Hamas; Afghanistan was a base of operations for them, and yet we didn't kill 15% of the population and starve the remainder. Why is that? Were we just pussies? Weak losers?

It is clear from this thread and Breanna Taylor that you either have no moral compass or it is extremely warped. This was a just war for like 6 months. It long ago ceased to be just.

Al Qaeda was not nearly as existential a threat to the United States in 2001 as Hamas has been to Israel. Imagine that, instead of thousands of Al Qaeda fighters being hiding 8,000 miles away from the US in Afghanistan, they were instead clustered in New Jersey. And imagine that these people were launching thousands of rockets into New York City each year. And imagine that one day hundreds of them slipped a few miles across the border, killed over 1,000 civilians in a matter of hours and kidnapped several hundred hostages. It is easier to show "restraint" when your enemy isn't located within walking distance. And yet hundreds of thousands of Afghan and Iraqi civilians still died in the wars that we participated in after 9/11.

One of us works in public service and helps people for a living, and one of us doesn't. I think my moral compass is just fine. It is a bit telling that the suggestion that Hamas should surrender would make someone so upset that they would resort to ad hominem attacks. If you feel that strongly about supporting Hamas's cause, I'm sure they would take you in.

 

[wmheel1287]

Al Qaeda was not nearly as existential a threat to the United States in 2001 as Hamas has been to Israel. Imagine that, instead of thousands of Al Qaeda fighters being hiding 8,000 miles away from the US in Afghanistan, they were instead clustered in New Jersey. And imagine that these people were launching thousands of rockets into New York City each year. And imagine that one day hundreds of them slipped a few miles across the border, killed over 1,000 civilians in a matter of hours and kidnapped several hundred hostages. It is easier to show "restraint" when your enemy isn't located within walking distance. And yet hundreds of thousands of Afghan and Iraqi civilians still died in the wars that we participated in after 9/11.

One of us works in public service and helps people for a living, and one of us doesn't. I think my moral compass is just fine.

Hamas is not an existential threat to Israel and they never have been. Stop overstating that. There are MAYBE 4 militaries on earth that have the ability to defeat Israel.

 

[TarSpiel]

Al Qaeda was not nearly as existential a threat to the United States in 2001 as Hamas has been to Israel....launching thousands of rockets

Israel responds to each one of those "rockets" (which aren't much more than M-14 firecrackers) with F-15 fighter jets.

Israel is and has always been *far more an existentialist threat* to Gaza than the other way around.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

Hamas is not an existential threat to Israel and they never have been. Stop overstating that. There are MAYBE 4 militaries on earth that have the ability to defeat Israel.

Terrorist groups are much harder to defeat than conventional militaries, as the last 25 years have shown. No, Hamas is not going to march in with tanks and take over Tel Aviv, but having an enemy that shares a border with you and that launches missiles at your civilian population centers is not something any other nation would tolerate. When that enemy then decides to kill over 1,000 of your civilians in a matter of hours, then all bets are off. Israel should not be expected to tolerate having its people live in fear every day.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

Israel responds to each one of those "rockets" (which aren't much more than M-14 firecrackers) with F-15 fighter jets.

Israel is and has always been *far more an existentialist threat* to Gaza than the other way around.

The rockets are much more than simple firecrackers....they are unguided missiles, and the only reason that hundreds of Israelis haven't been killed by them is because Israel has invested in a very strong missile defense system. If you want an example of what these missiles can do when they aren't intercepted, I can remind you of what happened when an errant Palestinian missile struck a hospital in Gaza when it fell short of Israel. According to Hamas, a thousand civilians were killed in that incident. More realistic estimates placed the number at a few dozen, which is still a few dozen more than a firecracker would kill.

 

[roostra]

Terrorist groups are much harder to defeat than conventional militaries, as the last 25 years have shown. No, Hamas is not going to march in with tanks and take over Tel Aviv, but having an enemy that shares a border with you and that launches missiles at your civilian population centers is not something any other nation would tolerate. When that enemy then decides to kill over 1,000 of your civilians in a matter of hours, then all bets are off. Israel should not be expected to tolerate having its people live in fear every day.

That does not even come close to meeting the terms of the definition of "existential threat."

 

[superrific]

None of this bullshit is a justification for intentional starvation and genocide.

 

[wmheel1287]

Terrorist groups are much harder to defeat than conventional militaries, as the last 25 years have shown. No, Hamas is not going to march in with tanks and take over Tel Aviv, but having an enemy that shares a border with you and that launches missiles at your civilian population centers is not something any other nation would tolerate. When that enemy then decides to kill over 1,000 of your civilians in a matter of hours, then all bets are off. Israel should not be expected to tolerate having its people live in fear every day.

And precisely none of that is a response to bolster your claim that Hamas represents an existential threat to Israel. Explain how, in your estimation, Hamas has ever shown any ability to disrupt the Israeli state to such a point as to imperil its existence.

It's ridiculous hyperbole to say what you've repeatedly said about the Hamas and Israel relationship.

There are millions of Americans right here who live in fear every single day and you aren't justifying mass starvation to minimize their fears.

Hamas is awful. At this point, Israel has far outperformed them on the atrocity scale.

 

[farce©]

Israel is creating more terrorists every day with their atrocities in Gaza. They are condemning another generation of Israeli children to a future of terrorist attacks by radicalizing the next generation of Palestinians.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

None of this bullshit is a justification for intentional starvation and genocide.

Looking for things that don’t exist, again.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

And precisely none of that is a response to bolster your claim that Hamas represents an existential threat to Israel. Explain how, in your estimation, Hamas has ever shown any ability to disrupt the Israeli state to such a point as to imperil its existence.

It's ridiculous hyperbole to say what you've repeatedly said about the Hamas and Israel relationship.

There are millions of Americans right here who live in fear every single day and you aren't justifying mass starvation to minimize their fears.

Hamas is awful. At this point, Israel has far outperformed them on the atrocity scale.

Hamas is an Iranian proxy. You think if Hamas got ahold of an Iranian nuke they would hesitate to use it? Not a chance.

 

[wmheel1287]

Israel is creating more terrorists every day with their atrocities in Gaza. They are condemning another generation of Israeli children to a future of terrorist attacks by radicalizing the next generation of Palestinians.

Much more ominous for Israel is what they are doing to public opinion here in the US. If the current fuckwits are ever out of power, all bets are off for US support of Israel. Those fuckers will find out what going it alone really looks like at some point.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

Israel is creating more terrorists every day with their atrocities in Gaza. They are condemning another generation of Israeli children to a future of terrorist attacks by radicalizing the next generation of Palestinians.

Considering that this current war started because of 10/7, I don’t think Israel gives a shit if an already radicalized group of people are radicalized even further. They want Hamas gone, and I don’t blame them.