Callatoroy
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Public threats to withhold aid, being publicly critical of its methods of fighting hamas. When we make those comments publicly it sends a message.
Israel Hamas War, West Bank | Israel accuses Hamas of violating Cease Fire
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You didn't ask me and i didn't think Biden did nearly enough to put Israel on a chain...but i think we all are about to find out what it looks like when the US goes whole hog in favoring Bibi and his monsters.
If you didn't recognize Biden’s actions as being at least somewhat in the best interests of Palestine, then i think Trump is about to illustrate that.
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If you want to say that protests are animated by emotion, I would agree with you.
What I'm saying is that protests, planned well, can serve the purposes of those who engage in said protests. Yes, that takes organizers to oversee the protests, to share a well-planned message to the public about the protests, and to provide the protestors guidelines that keep the protests focused on that message. It's said planning that allows protests to channel the emotion of righteous indignation into an effective weapon to fight injustice.
The SJP did not "glom on" to the Palestinian protests, they had been organizing such protests to raise awareness regarding the plight of Palestinians long before 10/7 and they were the direct planners of many of the initial protests right after that event. Of course, the high profile of the 10/7 attacks and Israel's response brought a lot of new folks to these protests, but SJP was in a leadership role for the initial wave of these protests and the failures of the protests are directly related to statements and actions by SJP folks in directing these protests.
I think the BLM protests are a little different as BLM leaders did a decent job with their protest messaging and largely during their protest actions. BLM's problem was that other groups glommed onto (to reuse your phrase) the BLM protests who didn't share the goals of the movement and created chaos that undermined BLM's message.
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It's hilarious that you blame everyone but the left for the left not being able to put forth and carry out a coherent plan to spread their message that the public will follow.
In your world, the left is NC State and the public is John Swofford, forever holding them down from their just rewards.
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This sentence should be stated before every conversation about Biden's admin and the Israel/Palestine issue.
The Biden administration may not have been completely pro-Palestine, but Trump is about to show us and the world what a fully pro-Israel policy from the US means for Israel's ability to continue oppressing and displacing Palestinians.
RaiGuy
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While Trump is a million times worse, I wouldn’t say that Biden did much in the best interest of Palestinians. In his last interview, he basically stated that Netanyahu was telling him they were basically planning to commit a genocide (comparing it to what the US did with the nuclear bombs) and Biden was fine with it. Again, I voted for Harris and know that Trump is basically Satan, but that doesn’t mean that Biden was good for Palestinians in this situation. He was just not as bad as Trump.
As unhappy a situation as it was., Biden didn't have the political power to do more than he did. He had limited power as it was because of the united Republican opposition and would lose Democratic support in any attempt to push back on Israel. I don't have your emotional investment so it's easier for me to accept that reality. I hate that we're so intertwined with them and their policies. I had hoped that if Harris won, we'd have a chance to push back.
Oh well.
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Biden's response was greatly, greatly hemmed in by both what Republicans and a few pro-Israel Dems in Congress would allow him to do and by what was at all possible to get Israel to agree to do. Within those parameters, I think that Biden did about as much as he could do and certainly prevented far more pro-Israel folks from being able to turn US policy in a completely pro-Israel direction.
You can probably reasonably say that Biden's actions toward the Palestinian issue was a "finger in the dike" response, but Biden's finger kept the dike from failing altogether. We're now about to see what it's like when Trump bulldozes the dike and the Palestinians are caught in a full on flood against them.
RaiGuy
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Yeah, I agree. But whatever the reasons, the outcome wasn’t looking out for the Palestinians.
heelslegup
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Trump is not dumb enough to follow through with this and lose his Saudi Sugar Daddies. This whole horrific idea is just a long-held Gaza/WB ethnic cleansing wet dream of a small but well-connected group of extremist Israeli elected officials and settkers. Aside from Israel, no country in the Middle East will back somthing this outrageous. Neither will the majority of Israelis.
Duke Mu
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Sure. There was clear evidence of undervote with young people and the far left. All Harris needed was about another 1.5-2% in critical states.
Duke Mu
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The undervote was real and devastating. This was in part a product of an inability of Harris to separate herself from Biden after the first few weeks of the campaign.
Biden's former campaign manager Jen O'Malley took over Kamala's campaign and put the brakes on. Harris and Walz started with populist momentum...then lost it.
She should have hired her own independent team.
www.commondreams.org
Biden's former campaign manager Jen O'Malley took over Kamala's campaign and put the brakes on. Harris and Walz started with populist momentum...then lost it.
She should have hired her own independent team.
'Damning' New Poll Shows Price Kamala Harris Paid for Backing Israeli Genocide in Gaza | Common Dreams
Vice President Kamala Harris' refusal to break with the Biden administration's support for Israel's assault on Gaza cost her millions of potential Democratic voters. Will the Democratic Party learn from this and listen to its voters who want leaders to oppose sending more weapons to Israel...
www.commondreams.org
Duke Mu
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Gaza will be seen as a major grifting opportunity for Trump.
Duke Mu
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Yeah - The situations couldn't be much more different. Biden and Blinken were negotiating for many months and had a clear peace plan.
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Is Trump going to give his Gaza plan naming rights?
Some truth to this.
Looking at the exit polling hosted on the Roper site:
2020: 18-29 demo was 17% of the vote and went 60-36 for Biden
2024: 18-29 demo was only 14% of the vote and went 54-43 for Harris
Doing the math, if the young people matched their turnout in 2024 with the same vote percentage, that would have been 4.5 million more votes, with 2.7 million for Harris and 1.6 million for Trump, a pickup of 1 .1 million votes, or .73% more total votes for Kamala. That would not have been enough to make up her 1.5% deficit in the national popular vote, and likely would not have been able to swing enough states to win the electoral college. It is a bit harder to know how the loss of the far left vote impacted the election.
How Groups Voted in 2020 | Roper Center for Public Opinion Research
TypeDemographicGroupBidenTrumpSEXMen484553Women525742RACEWhite674158African-American138712Hispanic
How Groups Voted in 2024 | Roper Center for Public Opinion Research
TypeDemographicGroupHarrisTrumpSEXMen474355Women535345RACEWhite714257African-American118613Hispanic
I think Trump’s own words prove it Rai.
The Palestinians remind me of our Native Americans. They were allowed to live on a land until the white man decided it was valuable. Then, they were forced off.
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And yet Trump’s statements clearly kick the tires on annexation.
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So the solution is a Trump-like "lie about what you'll do" to get elected and then just do something else anyway?The undervote was real and devastating. This was in part a product of an inability of Harris to separate herself from Biden after the first few weeks of the campaign.
Biden's former campaign manager Jen O'Malley took over Kamala's campaign and put the brakes on. Harris and Walz started with populist momentum...then lost it.
She should have hired her own independent team.
'Damning' New Poll Shows Price Kamala Harris Paid for Backing Israeli Genocide in Gaza | Common Dreams
Vice President Kamala Harris' refusal to break with the Biden administration's support for Israel's assault on Gaza cost her millions of potential Democratic voters. Will the Democratic Party learn from this and listen to its voters who want leaders to oppose sending more weapons to Israel...
There was no way that Kamala was going to stop arms transfers to Israel given the support for Israel in Congress. It simply wasn't going to happen. The only things Kamala could have done there is either told the truth that she would try to balance Palestinian and Israeli interests, aka "continue Biden's plan", or she could have lied and said that she'd lead the US to stop arms transfers to Israel, aka "lie just to get elected".
There's no realistic chance in 2025 that the US stops arms transfers or general support for Israel and any idea otherwise is silly.