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Israel launches attack on Iran | US bombs Iran nuke sites

nycfan said:
I think Trump has several traits that may make him particularly (if not for great reasons) well suited to make progress with most of the key players in the Middle East:

* his transactional outlook generally
* he doesn’t care at all about human rights
* he doesn’t care much if at all about democracy or freedom other than the freedom of some to be rich
* he doesn’t care at all about conflicts or interest or ethics — and has made it clear he and his family are open for business / bribes
* he cares a great deal about fossil fuel — its impact on gas prices but also as a bizarrely vocal opponent of green energy
* his Administration has already announced they do not intend to enforce laws against bribery in foreign countries by U.S. businesses
* his newfound love of crypto and alternative currency schemes, which are very popular with folks trying to evade U.S. controls on dollar transactions
* his love of being lavished with praise, pomp and circumstance
* his love of strong men leaders in a region dominated by them
* Putin’s need to re-establish Russian influence in the Middle East
* he seems to have no grudges about 9/11
* he has no apparent interest in the long term repercussions of his actions, only how they directly benefit him at the time
* he has a somewhat fraught relationship with Netanyahu


None of that (except maybe the last bullet) is good for his domestic policies in the United States or for Palestinians, political dissidents or other vulnerable people in the Middle East. But it may make him an effective (if very gullible / easily manipulated) broker among the royalty and strongmen of the Middle East.
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How do you define progress?
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
Netanyahu needs to go. Even if the dude thinks he’s done nothing wrong, sometimes folks have to go because of perception, etc. Israel needs a new voice/figurehead/leader.
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He needed to go well before O7 and even moreso now. I posted earlier that I don’t believe this action by Trump was some sort of distraction but I might be able to be convinced that Bibi launched this attack on Iran now in part because he was facing a potential no confidence vote and still faces a reckoning over corruption charges once things normalize in Israel.
 
Zoo_View said:
How do you define progress?
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Fair point — progress in terms of normalizing relations among the Arab states and Israel and maybe restraining Iran and its proxies in the region. Not progress in terms of human rights or the plight of political dissidents, minorities or Palestinians. Hopefully, normalized relations and political stability in the region would lead to improved conditions for all in the long run but I know that is mostly wishful thinking.
 
A temporary ceasefire between Israel and Iran firing missiles at each other is not peace or an end to conflict. Not even close. Before Trumpites sprain their shoulders high-fiving and patting each other on the back, let's see if there is any real progress toward ending conflict in Gaza. Or Ukraine. Or replacing tariffs with significant trade agreements. Or reducing the national debt. Or any other campaign promises. This is a pleasant diversion and not much more.
 
hedge said:
And what will you say if it turns out they arrived here b/w 2017 and 2021?
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Just so lazy. The point is, and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt to know it, that one guy was and has been trying to stop to flow of illegal immigration and vet who is coming in, while the other guy and entire party, through their rhetoric and inaction has invited refugees and flung open the doors and released unvetted millions into the country. That's just an accepted fact and an extremely unpopular position your party has adopted. When something bad does happen, how do you think that is going to play out in public opinion? People like you didn't care, mocked those who objected, attacked their character, and refused to acknowledge the danger of your actions.
 
nycfan said:
He needed to go well before O7 and even moreso now. I posted earlier that I don’t believe this action by Trump was some sort of distraction but I might be able to be convinced that Bibi launched this attack on Iran now in part because he was facing a potential no confidence vote and still faces a reckoning over corruption charges once things normalize in Israel.
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I think the timing has more to do with Iran's weakness. Iran's subsidiaries in Syria and Lebanon are eliminated and the fall of Assad shows how significantly Russia's pre-occupation with Ukraine limits Russia's ability to assist its allies in the region.
 
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“It was my great honor to make this happen”

This guy. China is buying oil from Iran at a discount because they are ignoring/circumventing sanctions against Iran. So not exactly something POTUS should cheer on or want to take credit for, at least this openly.
 
nycfan said:


“It was my great honor to make this happen”

This guy. China is buying oil from Iran at a discount because they are ignoring/circumventing sanctions against Iran. So not exactly something POTUS should cheer on or want to take credit for, at least this openly.
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he ran on the platform that hes not a politician but in reality he is a great politician. pond scum level which is really saying something for either pubs or dems
 

“… Americans disapprove of the strikes, 56% to 44%, according to the survey, with strong disapproval outpacing the share who strongly approve. Most distrust Trump’s decision-making on the use of force in Iran, with about 6 in 10 worried that the strikes will increase the Iranian threat to the US.

… Majorities of independents (60%) and Democrats (88%) disapprove of the decision to take military action in Iran. Republicans largely approve (82%). But just 44% of Republicans strongly approve of the airstrikes, far smaller than the group of Democrats who strongly disapprove (60%), perhaps reflecting that some in Trump’s coalition are broadly distrustful of military action abroad.…

Mistrust of Trump’s judgment is especially high among Democrats (88% of whom express little or no trust) and independents (62%), who also broadly say the president should be required to get congressional approval for any further military action in Iran (88% of Democrats and 67% of independents feel that way).

Republicans express more trust in the president, although that trust is also somewhat tempered: 51% say they have a great deal of trust in him to make the right decisions on the use of force with Iran, 37% a moderate amount. And the GOP divides over whether Trump ought to be required to get congressional approval for further action, with 39% saying he should be required to do so, 38% that he should not and 23% are not sure….”
 
nycfan said:

“… Americans disapprove of the strikes, 56% to 44%, according to the survey, with strong disapproval outpacing the share who strongly approve. Most distrust Trump’s decision-making on the use of force in Iran, with about 6 in 10 worried that the strikes will increase the Iranian threat to the US.

… Majorities of independents (60%) and Democrats (88%) disapprove of the decision to take military action in Iran. Republicans largely approve (82%). But just 44% of Republicans strongly approve of the airstrikes, far smaller than the group of Democrats who strongly disapprove (60%), perhaps reflecting that some in Trump’s coalition are broadly distrustful of military action abroad.…”
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This predates the ceasefire, so assuming the ceasefire holds, we’ll see how this evolves.
 
“We basically have two countries that have been fighting so long and so hard that they don’t know what the fuck they’re doing” -DJT

I admit, I laughed when I read this.
 
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