Why are we getting involved at all? Israel did this without our approval. We shouldn't be mettling in that region... since israel doesn't act like an ally aside for the money they give to lockheed-martin and our defense industry.
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Israel launches attack on Iran
- Thread starter Carolina Fever
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p5mmr9
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Israel did not attack Iran without the Trump administration's consent. What happens in the Middle East affects the USA, its economy, and its interests. Whether or not the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world has a nuclear weapon is an issue that should interest all of us.
ZenMode
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{sarcasm]Clear signs of an impeding genocide by Iran.{/sarcasm}
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A Battered Iran Signals It Wants to De-Escalate Hostilities With Israel and Negotiate
Messages passed by Tehran through intermediaries seek a return to talks if the U.S. stays out of the fight
—> https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-ea...e?st=hMURwK&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink“… In the midst of a ferocious Israeli air campaign, Tehran has told Arab officials they would be open to returning to the negotiating table as long as the U.S. doesn’t join the attack, the officials said. They also passed messages to Israel saying it is in the interest of both sides to keep the violence contained.
But with Israeli warplanes able to fly freely over the capital and Iranian counterattacks inflicting minimal damage, Israeli leaders have little incentive to halt their assault before doing more to destroy Iran’s nuclear sites and further weaken the theocratic government’s hold on power….”
Other than the defense industry, and oil, what are the economic impacts?
Regarding interests, our approach appears one-sided which spawns anti-west and anti-american terrorists. Creating terrorists is not in our interests. Enabling inhumane conditions in Gaza is not in our interest.
The whole thing is a lose-lose quagmire for many people in the region, so why would we embed ourselves into something lose-lose? What's our longterm goal? We can't even keep Israel from steam-rolling settlements, as alluded above, Afghanistan and Vietname have proven that nation-building is wishcasting, we don't have nearly as much control as we think we have.
Sanctions > war.
lawtig02
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A Battered Iran Signals It Wants to De-Escalate Hostilities With Israel and Negotiate
Messages passed by Tehran through intermediaries seek a return to talks if the U.S. stays out of the fight
“… In the midst of a ferocious Israeli air campaign, Tehran has told Arab officials they would be open to returning to the negotiating table as long as the U.S. doesn’t join the attack, the officials said. They also passed messages to Israel saying it is in the interest of both sides to keep the violence contained.
But with Israeli warplanes able to fly freely over the capital and Iranian counterattacks inflicting minimal damage, Israeli leaders have little incentive to halt their assault before doing more to destroy Iran’s nuclear sites and further weaken the theocratic government’s hold on power….”
I want peace. In this situation, though, I'm ok with letting the Iranian people see how their current leadership is incapable of protecting them from existential threats. I will oppose anything that suggests Israel is targeting civilian population centers, etc. But if I were in Trump's shoes, I'd think it's ok letting this play out a little longer to see if we could finally get some movement by the enormous percentage of Iranians who we have been hearing for decades are ready to join the (relatively) free world.
ZenMode
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A Battered Iran Signals It Wants to De-Escalate Hostilities With Israel and Negotiate
Messages passed by Tehran through intermediaries seek a return to talks if the U.S. stays out of the fight
“… In the midst of a ferocious Israeli air campaign, Tehran has told Arab officials they would be open to returning to the negotiating table as long as the U.S. doesn’t join the attack, the officials said. They also passed messages to Israel saying it is in the interest of both sides to keep the violence contained.
But with Israeli warplanes able to fly freely over the capital and Iranian counterattacks inflicting minimal damage, Israeli leaders have little incentive to halt their assault before doing more to destroy Iran’s nuclear sites and further weaken the theocratic government’s hold on power….”
Iran has been at war with Israel for decades, via its proxies. The time for a cease fire and negotiations has come and gone.
At least I hope that's how the US approaches it.
Mulberry Heel
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IMO, the only reason he cares about the Nobel Prize at all (or probably even knows it exists) is because Obama received one, and so he's got to at least match that. It no doubt burns him that a black man won such a globally prestigious award and he doesn't have one.
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1moretimeagain
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lawtig02
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Apologies in advance for the source of this link --
“Over 60 percent of the Iranian population is young. Less than 30 years old. So this is a very young population. The demands of the Iranian youth are exactly the same as the demands of other youth in other countries. The Iranian government (comprises) hardliners. Their goals are far from Iranian youth and Iranian population. So these protesters, most of them, almost all of them are young people. They experience a lot. They were detained. They were imprisoned in these recent protests. So by this rich experience, their family members are supporting them much more than before.”
“And also, their favorite national heroes, athletes and artists, are in the same vein.”
“They are so brave. They’re in the street. They’re chanting. This is not only about freedom for women. It’s freedom for the country.”
“In 2009 they chanted, ‘Where is my vote?’ In this protest, they’re chanting, ‘Where is my life?’
“They need freedom of a style of life. This mandatory style of life that the government tries to force to the Iranians – one of the particulars is about hair covering for women. This is exactly about freedom.”
* * *
“I think this is the question of many Iranians and many protestors. The desire of Iranians, the majority of Iranians, is regime change. We can see it in their chanting and their slogans.”
“When we ask of ourselves, is it possible today in this protest? I think this is … idealistic. This protest is a step forward. We are closer to freedom for Iran, closer to a better future for Iran. But we should understand the reality of this regime.”
“This is a revolutionary, young, authoritative, non-competitive electoral regime.”
“Since 2020, this is a noncompetitive, electoral, authoritative regime in the name of Islam. Before that we had two candidates in the presidential election. One from the reformist or moderate side, and one from the hardliner side. But since 2020, the leader decided to have a noncompetitive election. This is the election we had and (current Iranian President) Ebrahim Raisi came to office.”
“Iranians tried all the ways to reform their government. The government blocked all the ways. That means there’s no way for the people, except coming to the streets and protesting and making demonstrations.”
“They tried to reform legally to change the president, to change the parliament members. I can say the majority of Iranians do not have any representatives in the Iranian parliament. The president is not representative of the majority of Iranians.”
“This regime is supported strongly by Russia and China. Those are their allies in the region. This regime is among the most powerful regimes in the region. So changing it is not so easy.”
ON REASON FOR MORE FREQUENT PROTESTS
Mohsen Kadivar“Over 60 percent of the Iranian population is young. Less than 30 years old. So this is a very young population. The demands of the Iranian youth are exactly the same as the demands of other youth in other countries. The Iranian government (comprises) hardliners. Their goals are far from Iranian youth and Iranian population. So these protesters, most of them, almost all of them are young people. They experience a lot. They were detained. They were imprisoned in these recent protests. So by this rich experience, their family members are supporting them much more than before.”
“And also, their favorite national heroes, athletes and artists, are in the same vein.”
“They are so brave. They’re in the street. They’re chanting. This is not only about freedom for women. It’s freedom for the country.”
“In 2009 they chanted, ‘Where is my vote?’ In this protest, they’re chanting, ‘Where is my life?’
“They need freedom of a style of life. This mandatory style of life that the government tries to force to the Iranians – one of the particulars is about hair covering for women. This is exactly about freedom.”
* * *
ON WHETHER REGIME CHANGE IS POSSIBLE
Mohsen Kadivar“I think this is the question of many Iranians and many protestors. The desire of Iranians, the majority of Iranians, is regime change. We can see it in their chanting and their slogans.”
“When we ask of ourselves, is it possible today in this protest? I think this is … idealistic. This protest is a step forward. We are closer to freedom for Iran, closer to a better future for Iran. But we should understand the reality of this regime.”
“This is a revolutionary, young, authoritative, non-competitive electoral regime.”
“Since 2020, this is a noncompetitive, electoral, authoritative regime in the name of Islam. Before that we had two candidates in the presidential election. One from the reformist or moderate side, and one from the hardliner side. But since 2020, the leader decided to have a noncompetitive election. This is the election we had and (current Iranian President) Ebrahim Raisi came to office.”
“Iranians tried all the ways to reform their government. The government blocked all the ways. That means there’s no way for the people, except coming to the streets and protesting and making demonstrations.”
“They tried to reform legally to change the president, to change the parliament members. I can say the majority of Iranians do not have any representatives in the Iranian parliament. The president is not representative of the majority of Iranians.”
“This regime is supported strongly by Russia and China. Those are their allies in the region. This regime is among the most powerful regimes in the region. So changing it is not so easy.”
superrific
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The Middle East would be safer if Iran had a nuke. The reason it uses proxies is that it has no good way to defend itself against Israel, which has a nuke.
I know this sounds ridiculous at first, but remember: MAD has been one of the most effective anti-war policies in history. And that's why in the 1970s, the US and the Soviet Union entered a treaty restricting the use of anti-ballistic missiles.
I know this sounds ridiculous at first, but remember: MAD has been one of the most effective anti-war policies in history. And that's why in the 1970s, the US and the Soviet Union entered a treaty restricting the use of anti-ballistic missiles.
1moretimeagain
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Regularly scheduled broadcast interrupted by breaking news.
ZenMode
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Hopefully we want to defend the only democracy in the middle east.
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We should not be supporting the current Israeli government.
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We would be better off defending the one that is on the verge of faltering in North America.
lawtig02
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I hear you on MAD, but I don't think Iran having a nuke would make anything safer. Iran's population is educated and rational. Iran's leadership is not.
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Amen. Regime change in Iran is valuable. Regime change in Israel is absolutely necessary.
Lebanon?