Israel reaches cease fire with Hezbollah, fighting shifts to Syria

[ZenMode]

Do we know that for a fact yet? That the explosions were caused by explosives inserted in the supply chain? I know it's been theorized but wasn't sure if it had been confirmed.

That's how it's being reported in AP Reuters and NY Times. At this point, there's no reason to believe those sources are inaccurate.

 

[Geisterfahrer]

Do we know that for a fact yet? That the explosions were caused by explosives inserted in the supply chain? I know it's been theorized but wasn't sure if it had been confirmed.

The NY Times said so.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

How is this not considered an act of terror? Detonating explosives on people in crowded areas, homes, groceries, hospitals, etc… is an act of terrorism and should he condemned. If it was the other way around, how would people be reacting?
Of the 12 people killed yesterday, 2 were children and 4 were healthcare workers. Those pagers weren’t just used by Hezbollah.
What if one of the people with the pagers happened to be on a plane?
The people in Lebanon are traumatized by the coordinated explosions. However, the civilian victims are just a footnote and their lives don’t matter because they have been dehumanized over time.

Maybe because Hezbollah is a terrorist group and the pagers were distributed by the heads of that group to its leaders and foot soldiers? Asking for 0% collateral damage count in warfare is not realistic. Israel achieved a remarkable targeted victory against a noted terrorist group yesterday and today and they still can do no right according to you. Not surprised.

 

[RaiGuy]

Maybe because Hezbollah is a terrorist group and the pagers were distributed by the heads of that group to its leaders and foot soldiers? Asking for 0% collateral damage count in warfare is not realistic. Israel achieved a remarkable targeted victory against a noted terrorist group yesterday and today and they still can do no right according to you. Not surprised.

They weren’t used exclusively by Hezbollah and they detonated in areas next to civilians. That is a terrorist act. If someone bombed a pizza place that had an israeli soldier in it, would that be justified?
Israel is supposedly defending itself from terror by continuing to commit acts of terror and war crimes. This continues to show that they’re a terrorist state.
Why didn’t they just bug them and use them for surveillance instead of detonating them in public places?

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

They weren’t used exclusively by Hezbollah and they detonated in areas next to civilians. That is a terrorist act. If someone bombed a pizza place that had an israeli soldier in it, would that be justified?
Israel is supposedly defending itself from terror by continuing to commit acts of terror and war crimes. This continues to show that they’re a terrorist state.
Why didn’t they just bug them and use them for surveillance instead of detonating them in public places?

They were literally bought by Hezbollah and distributed by Hezbollah to its operatives. This is nothing like your suicide bomber in a pizza parlor analogy. It was a remarkably effective and targeted strike against an international terrorist organization and Israel is being widely lauded for it, as they should be. Also, bugging 3,000 one-way pagers would be useless. The terrorists don’t speak into the pagers. They just receive one-way messages with them.

 

[RaiGuy]

They were literally bought by Hezbollah and distributed by Hezbollah to its operatives. This is nothing like your suicide bomber in a pizza parlor analogy. It was a remarkably effective and targeted strike against an international terrorist organization and Israel is being widely lauded for it, as they should be. Also, bugging 3,000 one-way pagers would be useless. The terrorists don’t speak into the pagers. They just receive one-way messages with them.

If you page a bug on it, it could transmit back, like how they transmitted to it to detonate it.
Like I said, they weren’t strictly used by Hezbollah, as evidenced by the healthcare workers that were killed and injured.
Who is widely lauding Israel?

We all know the only reason this isn’t called a terrorist act is because of who committed it and who the civilian victims are.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

If you page a bug on it, it could transmit back, like how they transmitted to it to detonate it.
Like I said, they weren’t strictly used by Hezbollah, as evidenced by the healthcare workers that were killed and injured.
Who is widely lauding Israel?

We all know the only reason this isn’t called a terrorist act is because of who committed it and who the civilian victims are.

Why would healthcare workers be carrying Hezbollah pagers? Hezbollah’s terrorists don’t get paid by Hezbollah for their 9-5. They work other jobs and act on behalf of Nasrallah and other leaders when ordered….as in by pager.

Also, there’s much more utility in taking out thousands of terrorists in seconds with very little collateral damage by using tiny explosives. Most of those terrorists are still alive (albeit permanently disabled) and much less blood was shed than would have been had they been engaged in conventional combat.

 

[RaiGuy]

Why would healthcare workers be carrying Hezbollah pagers? Hezbollah’s terrorists don’t get paid by Hezbollah for their 9-5. They work other jobs and act on behalf of Nasrallah and other leaders when ordered….as in by pager.

Also, there’s much more utility in taking out thousands of terrorists in seconds with very little collateral damage by using tiny explosives. Most of those terrorists are still alive (albeit permanently disabled) and much less blood was shed than would have been had they been engaged in conventional combat.

Because the healthcare workers aren’t Hezbollah, as I mentioned before. Your just making things up with your theories that they’re all Hezbollah.

Also, they didn’t take out thousands of Hezbollah members. All they did was help Hezbollah recruit more people to join them.

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

Because the healthcare workers aren’t Hezbollah, as I mentioned before. Your just making things up with your theories that they’re all Hezbollah.

Also, they didn’t take out thousands of Hezbollah members. All they did was help Hezbollah recruit more people to join them.

How do you know they aren’t Hezbollah? Why would they be carrying pagers that Hezbollah bought and distributed to its members?

Over 3,000 injured, hundreds in critical condition. They took out thousands of Hezbollah members at least temporarily and many hundreds have injuries that will make it very difficult for them to ever fight again.

 

[RaiGuy]

How do you know they aren’t Hezbollah? Why would they be carrying pagers that Hezbollah bought and distributed to its members?

Over 3,000 injured, hundreds in critical condition. They took out thousands of Hezbollah members at least temporarily and many hundreds have injuries that will make it very difficult for them to ever fight again.

How do you know they are Hezbollah?

Let me guess, the children killed were also Hezbollah? You’re using your same Hamas argument, but you did a find and replace with Hezbollah.

This might temporarily slow down Hezbollah, but will cause them to retaliate at a later time.

Should Lebanon be allowed to defend itself from a terrorist attack as well or does that only apply if you’re white/European?

 

[2ManyBlueCups]

How do you know they are Hezbollah?

Let me guess, the children killed were also Hezbollah? You’re using your same Hamas argument, but you did a find and replace with Hezbollah.

This might temporarily slow down Hezbollah, but will cause them to retaliate at a later time.

Should Lebanon be allowed to defend itself from a terrorist attack as well or does that only apply if you’re white/European?

It is fairly easy to deduce that people using a pager that was bought by Hezbollah and distributed by Hezbollah to its members because Hezbollah’s chief terrorist told them to stop using cell phones are Hezbollah. You don’t just buy a Hezbollah pager at radio shack. The girl who was killed heard her father’s Hezbollah pager going off and picked it up.

Lebanon wasn’t attacked by terrorists. Lots of Lebanese were thrilled by the operation because they hate Hezbollah too. This operation will go down in military history as one of the greatest sabotage operations of all time. Hezbollah has at least temporarily been castrated (quite literally in some cases).

 

[TullyHeel]

Because the healthcare workers aren’t Hezbollah, as I mentioned before. Your just making things up with your theories that they’re all Hezbollah.

Also, they didn’t take out thousands of Hezbollah members. All they did was help Hezbollah recruit more people to join them.

They intercepted pagers they knew were going to be distributed to Hezbollah members. They weren't just rigging random pagers to explode.

 

[Ddseddse]

Let me guess, the children killed were also Hezbollah?

Likely sitting in a lap, bringing a buzzing pager from another room to a parent, or similar.

No one is saying there wasn’t collateral damage or that damage isn’t tragic.

As military operations go this was pretty well targeted and adheres to the law of proportionality pretty well.

I think Israel is committing boatloads of war crimes openly and in plain sight (where the law of proportionality is grossly violated), but I don’t think this operation is one.

 

[dcphx]

Maybe, but that would be incredibly reckless for Israel to do. Could hurt a lot of innocents that way, including Israelis. In fairness to you, they seem all out of fucks to give so who knows?

Yeah, what's the count of innocent Palestinian women & children who've been killed by IDF in the last almost 12 months 40,000?

 

[RaiGuy]

It is fairly easy to deduce that people using a pager that was bought by Hezbollah and distributed by Hezbollah to its members because Hezbollah’s chief terrorist told them to stop using cell phones are Hezbollah. You don’t just buy a Hezbollah pager at radio shack. The girl who was killed heard her father’s Hezbollah pager going off and picked it up.

Lebanon wasn’t attacked by terrorists. Lots of Lebanese were thrilled by the operation because they hate Hezbollah too. This operation will go down in military history as one of the greatest sabotage operations of all time. Hezbollah has at least temporarily been castrated (quite literally in some cases).

Lots of Lebanese people were thrilled?? How many Lebanese people do you know?

 

[dcphx]

Imagine what they could do to an electric (or gas powered) car given that most are connected to the internet via cellular networks these days.

Edit to add: how about a separate thread to rehash a 50 year old war?

There is a conspiracy about the death of journalist Michael Hastings that his vehicle was controlled from the outside and driven into a tree at high speed.

 

[SnoopRob]

How is this not considered an act of terror? Detonating explosives on people in crowded areas, homes, groceries, hospitals, etc… is an act of terrorism and should he condemned. If it was the other way around, how would people be reacting?
Of the 12 people killed yesterday, 2 were children and 4 were healthcare workers. Those pagers weren’t just used by Hezbollah.
What if one of the people with the pagers happened to be on a plane?
The people in Lebanon are traumatized by the coordinated explosions. However, the civilian victims are just a footnote and their lives don’t matter because they have been dehumanized over time.

I think you have a very good point here.

I will say that, as far as I've seen, the question of whether or not these pagers/walkie-talkies were available to the general public or whether or not they all went to Hezbollah members is still open.

There's certainly a lot left to be learned about what has happened here. But I think you have a great point about collateral damage.

 

[Batt Boy]

Lots of Lebanese people were thrilled?? How many Lebanese people do you know?

I don't know blue cups, but I did play pickleball tonight with the regular gang. 2 of the guys are Lebanese. Granted, they are Maronites and left in the early 80s. They both still have some family in the north but both hate Hezbollah. They also hate Israel. But most of their disgust is for the Palestinians. They loathe them. What I don't understand, is when I bring up the Druze, they get very agitated. They also really hate them. Come to think of it, I don't know who they like, but they are really good fellas otherwise. Both PhDs.

 

[Geisterfahrer]

Lots of Lebanese people were thrilled?? How many Lebanese people do you know?

I know some and they definitely don’t like Hezbollah, generally because of the whole theocratic dictatorship thing.

 

[RaiGuy]

I know some and they definitely don’t like Hezbollah, generally because of the whole theocratic dictatorship thing.

Yeah, I wasn’t implying they all supported Hezbollah, but they did not want Israel to randomly detonate explosives that killed/hurt civilians. The Lebanese people have been through a lot of trauma over the years.