Issue discussion: Deficit and national debt

[Mulberry Heel]

Conservative deficit hawks are, of course, nowhere to be found now that a Pub is back in the White House.

It's been said many times before, but the only time that Republicans or conservatives are actually small-government conservatives is when a Democrat is in the White House. When one of their own is in charge they spend like drunken sailors and drive up the deficit to record highs.

 

[JCTarheel82]

It's been said many times before, but the only time that Republicans or conservatives are actually small-government conservatives is when a Democrat is in the White House. When one of their own is in charge they spend like drunken sailors and drive up the deficit to record highs.

And that drunken sailor spending offers little to no benefit to lower and middle class Americans. It's mostly war and tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations.

 

[korgguy1971]

And that drunken sailor spending offers little to no benefit to lower and middle class Americans. It's mostly war and tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations.

It's incredible how the Republican base keeps allowing Republican politicians (or whatever the Republican party is now) to keep repackaging and regifting the same turds back to them every election cycle under the guise of immigration and runaway spending by Democrats.

And shame on the Democrats for not being able to slam dunk and capitalize on this - and many other issues - during election cycles. They have the truth and the facts on their side. It almost makes you wonder if they aren't tanking it deliberately. I mean, attack ads against candidates who are repeatedly in the Epstein files? Especially the orange piece of shit?? It should be a fucking layup.

 

[heelinhell]

It's incredible how the Republican base keeps allowing Republican politicians (or whatever the Republican party is now) to keep repackaging and regifting the same turds back to them every election cycle under the guise of immigration and runaway spending by Democrats.

And shame on the Democrats for not being able to slam dunk and capitalize on this - and many other issues - during election cycles. They have the truth and the facts on their side. It almost makes you wonder if they aren't tanking it deliberately. I mean, attack ads against candidates who are repeatedly in the Epstein files? Especially the orange piece of shit?? It should be a fucking layup.

There is a graph on another thread that shows our budget deficit increased with Poppy Bush ,GWB, skyrocketed with Trump 1.0, and is increasing now with Trump 2.0
The budget deficit decreased with Clinton, Obama, and Biden

But the myth that GQpers are better for the economy than Dems continues. The sad thing is that working and middleclass voters believe the myth.

 

[nycfan]

https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/republicans/debt-dashboard

 

[nycfan]

 

[nycfan]

 

[UNCatTech]

It seems like we have passed the tipping point for this and there will be no easy recovery. What happened to ask the conservatives who claimed this was a to priority?

 

[finesse]

It seems like we have passed the tipping point for this and there will be no easy recovery. What happened to ask the conservatives who claimed this was a to priority?

It was. They increased the national debt every time they were in control. That and trying to keep from losing all the traditional WASP privileges are essentially the only consistent principles they've governed by.

 

[Delta74]

It was. They increased the national debt every time they were in control. That and trying to keep from losing all the traditional WASP privileges are essentially the only consistent principles they've governed by.

Every election the Cons scream about the deficit and how they’ll reduce govt spending. And then of course they don’t. Even would support spending hundreds of millions of dollars working on the WH (which I know Trump is saying to pay w private donations but yeah that’s a whole other can of worms) but even if it’s taxpayer money the Cons would keep their mouths shut. The bottom line is the Cons always fall in line w whatever their psycho leader wants as they are hypocrites to the highest degree.

 

[BillOfRights]

Every election the Cons scream about the deficit and how they’ll reduce govt spending. And then of course they don’t. Even would support spending hundreds of millions of dollars working on the WH (which I know Trump is saying to pay w private donations but yeah that’s a whole other can of worms) but even if it’s taxpayer money the Cons would keep their mouths shut. The bottom line is the Cons always fall in line w whatever their psycho leader wants as they are hypocrites to the highest degree.

Hypocrisy is the last remaining principle of the Republican Party

 

[BlueSmoke]

Republican priority, which they tell you, is to eliminate as much of the government as they can. Democrats run on more government. Frankly, many voters prefer elimination to more government messaging.

I don't remember any Democrat in this century running on an actual plan to reduce the national debt. Complain about republican adding to the debt yes. Show an actual plan.......no. So Dem's lack credibility.

And there is a disconnect. For Dems to believe in government but lack messaging on the national debt is a disconnect. There's been many comments on here about why we can't have a government like the nordic countries? Well, their voters expect their government to have low national debt ratios that are often half ours. And to be very careful with safety net spending so there's no abuse from those who don't deserve it. When Democrats fail to message doing the maintenance on safety net spending it just gives the Republicans oxygen to promote their eliminate the government agenda.

I remember when Bill Clinton did welfare reform and how popular it was. Of course the Republicans had some influence on that. But there were plenty of "amens" when he did it.

 

[UNCatTech]

calling @Callatoroy and @Ramrouser, where do you stand on the traditional claim that conservatives are for fiscal responsibility and liberals like to spend now that trump seems to believe that spending doesn't matter in any way. And his party is behind him spending and cutting revenues like it's monopoly money.

 

[UNCatTech]

Republican priority, which they tell you, is to eliminate as much of the government as they can. Democrats run on more government. Frankly, many voters prefer elimination to more government messaging.

I don't remember any Democrat in this century running on an actual plan to reduce the national debt. Complain about republican adding to the debt yes. Show an actual plan.......no. So Dem's lack credibility.

And there is a disconnect. For Dems to believe in government but lack messaging on the national debt is a disconnect. There's been many comments on here about why we can't have a government like the nordic countries? Well, their voters expect their government to have low national debt ratios that are often half ours. And to be very careful with safety net spending so there's no abuse from those who don't deserve it. When Democrats fail to message doing the maintenance on safety net spending it just gives the Republicans oxygen to promote their eliminate the government agenda.

I remember when Bill Clinton did welfare reform and how popular it was. Of course the Republicans had some influence on that. But there were plenty of "amens" when he did it.

The ignorance behind their belief in “less government” needs to be addressed.

If people understood how government played a major role in creating the middle class, and how government, when used correctly, helps everyone and keeps the oligarchs in check, then maybe there would be a chance.

The challenge is figuring out how to educate people on that history and reality in a way they are willing to hear.

 

[finesse]

Republican priority, which they tell you, is to eliminate as much of the government as they can. Democrats run on more government. Frankly, many voters prefer elimination to more government messaging.

I don't remember any Democrat in this century running on an actual plan to reduce the national debt. Complain about republican adding to the debt yes. Show an actual plan.......no. So Dem's lack credibility.

And there is a disconnect. For Dems to believe in government but lack messaging on the national debt is a disconnect. There's been many comments on here about why we can't have a government like the nordic countries? Well, their voters expect their government to have low national debt ratios that are often half ours. And to be very careful with safety net spending so there's no abuse from those who don't deserve it. When Democrats fail to message doing the maintenance on safety net spending it just gives the Republicans oxygen to promote their eliminate the government agenda.

I remember when Bill Clinton did welfare reform and how popular it was. Of course the Republicans had some influence on that. But there were plenty of "amens" when he did it.

They didn't show a plan because it was more important to pay the war debts the Republicans left behind. Quit that bosiding BS. How much did we owe from the war when Obama took over? Remember he literally used up every bit of political leverage he had in getting the ACA through. If you're remotely sentient, you know that. Name one thing the the Republicans have done for the everyman's benefit that didn't favor their elite more.

 

[superrific]

Republican priority, which they tell you, is to eliminate as much of the government as they can. Democrats run on more government. Frankly, many voters prefer elimination to more government messaging.

I don't remember any Democrat in this century running on an actual plan to reduce the national debt. Complain about republican adding to the debt yes. Show an actual plan.......no. So Dem's lack credibility.

What are you talking about? Both Obama and Biden reduced the deficit. I'd say that's even better than "a plan."

But anyway, Obama DID run on reducing the deficit. In fact, Bill Clinton in his nominating speech for Obama talked about the deficit for 45 minutes. That was an official party stance. And there's this:



You know, you can use google or AI to fact check bullshit before vomiting it over the screen.

 

[BillOfRights]

trump has added more than $11T to the national debt so far, but the 10-year cost of his policies puts his total at $14.5T. Using the $11T number, in our country's 250 year history, trump has been President for 2% of the time and is responsible for 28% of the debt.

 

[BillOfRights]

What are you talking about? Both Obama and Biden reduced the deficit. I'd say that's even better than "a plan."

But anyway, Obama DID run on reducing the deficit. In fact, Bill Clinton in his nominating speech for Obama talked about the deficit for 45 minutes. That was an official party stance. And there's this:



You know, you can use google or AI to fact check bullshit before vomiting it over the screen.

Both Obama and Biden reduced the deficit, but increased the debt. The last President to reduce the debt was Clinton. I remember W running for President and criticizing the Clinton/Gore administration for reducing the debt by running a surplus. Bush said it isn't the government's money, it's your money. Republicans have absolutely ZERO credibility on deficit and debt.

 

[BlueSmoke]

What are you talking about? Both Obama and Biden reduced the deficit. I'd say that's even better than "a plan."

But anyway, Obama DID run on reducing the deficit. In fact, Bill Clinton in his nominating speech for Obama talked about the deficit for 45 minutes. That was an official party stance. And there's this:



You know, you can use google or AI to fact check bullshit before vomiting it over the screen.

I didn't say one word about the deficit now did I? About four posts before I posted NYCfan posted all that stuff about the National Debt which is what I was addressing. I'm not even sure if anything she had was about the deficit. But when I google national debt for obama it says it increased by 9 trillion. Pretty sure the almost the same for Biden.

But yea, Obama actually did pretty good on the deficit. His and Dem messaging on it sucks thou. That's pretty much what I was talking about.

 

[superrific]

I didn't say one word about the deficit now did I? About four posts before I posted NYCfan posted all that stuff about the National Debt which is what I was addressing. I'm not even sure if anything she had was about the deficit. But when I google national debt for obama it says it increased by 9 trillion. Pretty sure the almost the same for Biden.

But yea, Obama actually did pretty good on the deficit. His and Dem messaging on it sucks thou. That's pretty much what I was talking about.

The deficit is the rate of change of the debt. You literally cannot talk about reducing the debt without talking about the deficit, implicitly or explicitly.

Yes, the debt increased under Obama. That's what it means to have a deficit. And, if he did well on the deficit, he did well on the debt.

What people often don't understand is that the deficit is the problem, not the debt. We can grow our way out of the debt, but if the deficit is larger than the growth rate (as it is now and always is under the GOP) then we will not be able to and it will eventually bite us.

One great way of keeping the debt in check would be to decrease the military budget, not expand it to 1.5T. You can see why spending money on weapons system is so stupid. If we don't have tons of weapons, then people like Trump can't waste them on pointless endless wars.