I don't think Mr. Charisma has what it takes. He can hold the weirdos, flakes and Paulists but I don't think he can inspire the batshit crazy.
JD Vance Catch-all
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Yeah. IF St. Donald of Mar-a-Lago wins, the time before Section 4 of the 25th Amendment is invoked will be measured in weeks, not months. And there will be minimal, if any, kickback. Somehow MAGA Nation will convince themselves that St. Donald sacrificed his waning strength, vitality, and health to move the GOP over the finish line, one last time. And now St. Donald should be allowed to lay down the burdens of the country he has carried on his back for so many years without the threat of yapping liberals dogs constantly nipping at his heels.
The MAGAts will never tolerate or accept removing Trump from office.
Trump would have to willingly leave office* and anoint a successor (if Trump is POTUS and Vance is VPOTUS, that doesn’t amount to anointing); even if Trump voluntarily leaves office*, the MAGAts won’t believe it was his choice. If Trump willingly leaves office*, the MAGAts will think the Deep State forced him out.
Vance will not be the MAGA godhead.
*Trump will never leave office voluntarily.
Trump would have to willingly leave office* and anoint a successor (if Trump is POTUS and Vance is VPOTUS, that doesn’t amount to anointing); even if Trump voluntarily leaves office*, the MAGAts won’t believe it was his choice. If Trump willingly leaves office*, the MAGAts will think the Deep State forced him out.
Vance will not be the MAGA godhead.
*Trump will never leave office voluntarily.
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If he’s running against the likes of DeSantis, Haley, Hawley, Cruz, etc, he’s probably well positioned.
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If Trump wins, perhaps. But if Trump loses, I don’t see it. When is the last time, if ever, a VP candidate on a losing ticket has been a real threat politically?
In my lifetime, there was Dole, Mondale, Bentsen, Quayle, Lieberman, Edwards, Palin, Ryan, Kaine, and Pence. Of those, only two were able to go on to become their party’s nominee for President, but each time they were essentially sacrificial lambs, nominated to run when everyone knew that had no real chance. And Vance will have that Trump taint on him.
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Remember that time Al Gore attended a fundraiser at a Buddhist temple as VP in 1996 and it was a major scandal that undermined his run for POTUS in 2000? TBF, it was a pretty egregious fundraising escapade using a tax-exempt religious site and more damning the organizers allegedly used monks as straw men for other Taiwanese-American donors to raise about a third of the $155,000 raised that day. So Gore deserved scrutiny and his answers were lacking (amounting to he didn’t know it was a fund-raiser, which seems unlikely, and thought here is no evidence he knew anything about the donation laundering, hard to believe he though Buddhist monks could donate $55,000 to anything).
The point is not that Gore was unfairly tagged and badgered for the Buddhist Temple escapee, more that the media just lets that kind of thing go now, even when it is a pattern of behavior by the Trump campaign and not just a one-off.
lawtig02
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This is not at all to excuse the press, who I agree has just capitulated on this without a fight, but I think this whole issue has been profoundly impacted by SCOTUS's lurch to the right. There's just no possible chance this SCOTUS would come anywhere close to finding the obvious tax-law violations are actionable under the First Amendment.
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Even if the US survives the Trump era as an economic/military superpower and a thriving model of democracy in the short term, there will be lingering damage to our norms for integrity and rule of law for decades. It’s likely this period is the beginning of our decline.
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I’d still make them put ink to paper and sign their names to it.
Not quite sure what this decline is. Would you explain? Yes, there are remnants of old hatreds that threaten what we have achieved but, in fact, we're healthier, better fed, better off financially, more peaceful at home and abroad and generally better off by most metrics.
It's true that the Republican Party, who long touted themselves as the party of integrity, personal responsibility and patriotism has forsaken every one of those. At least, I can't think of a single leader in that party who encapsulates any of those virtues. They, like many of their supporters, put power and privilege over party.
That's neither America or democracy.
lawtig02
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This should definitely be a separate thread and I suggest we defer it until after the election, but I could not disagree more. Or, to be more precise, we at least have to be much more specific what is meant by "decline." We have some profound challenges, no doubt. But I can say with no hesitation I'd rather be an American right now than at any other time in the history of the country. And I'm a straight, white, college-educated male, so my relative privilege would have been significantly greater in prior eras.
Both were artifacts of WWII and had started facing challenges before the Marshall Plan ended.
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I have seen a couple Catholic churches in Charlotte with big signs out front that say “Vote Pro-Life.” While they don’t directly endorse any particular candidate, they indirectly endorse certain candidates and seem to run afoul of 501(c)(3).
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I'm sure that has nothing to do with being complacent with our industrial technology while Germany and Japan are forced into rebuilding theirs with a much more efficient one . Nor does losing sole proprietorship of nuclear power, chasing ghosts in Iran, Indochina and countless other places for the former colonial powers and blundering around in South and Central America help in maintaining a somewhat fictional military hegemony.
Oh. That, like so many other thing started when Truman and Eisenhower, finally recognized that if blacks could fight and die for the country, then the government needed to swing behind the Civil Rights movement. The Ivy Leaguers who ran the CIA still maintained a huge influence on foreign policy but hat's when everything stopped being all about the white power elite. That movement grew to include women and gays and, despite your earlier contention, does not represent a decline but a much needed refocus.
I would gladly continue this discussion but am quite willing to take it elsewhere.
I would gladly continue this discussion but am quite willing to take it elsewhere.
lawtig02
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I really do want to discuss this, but my views on it will be impacted by what happens on 11/5, and it definitely doesn't have anything to do with this thread. So how about we all put a marker on our calendars to start a new thread on this topic around the middle of November. I think it would be a really interesting discussion.
ChapelHillSooner
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I did not know that Dole was Ford's running mate in '76. Learn something new every day.
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No offense but that’s about as ahistorical take as I’ve ever heard on this forum. Americas global “hegemony” such as it ever was peaked in the 90s with the end of the Cold War.
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I’m talking about when it peaked, after which comes decline. Everything’s up for debate I suppose but you’re arguing against facts.
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I suppose that’s a credit to how well you’ve articulated your point. DM away if you feel it. Apologies to all for the derail.