Joe Biden Was NOT running the country

Mulberry Heel said:
The notion that Harris & Trump were somehow equally unqualified or noxious candidates is one of the biggest lies Trumpers tell themselves (and the same goes with Hillary). By nearly every objective, real-world metric Harris was vastly more qualified than Donald Freaking Trump to be POTUS. Of course she wasn't perfect (who is?) but Trump is so much worse by nearly every standard that it is a joke to argue otherwise.

If Harris had been elected none of the shit we're going through right now would be happening, period. Trumpers can claim whatever the hell they want regarding their vote, but she lost because first, she's a woman of color, second, she's from California, a state Trumpers love to hate, and third, she was a vice-president in an unpopular administration. Things like inflation were nothing more than an excuse for them to do what they were already going to do. The fact that her opponent had a failed first-term presidency, that nearly every leading member of his first administration openly said he wasn't qualified or possessed the character and temperament to be president again, that he openly said he would raise tariffs and spent most of his campaign rambling incoherently like a drooling fool at rallies didn't matter a whit to his adoring cult supporters, because the Donald Trump they believe they support doesn't exist and never has.

All they knew - based on Dear Leader's insults and Fox News and other right-wing media (including much of legacy media), and word of mouth they likely heard at their church - was that Kamala Harris was a feminist woman of color from that liberal hellhole of California who slept her way to the top and had a weird first name and supported kids changing their gender like that Trump TV commercial they saw and she symbolized all of those snooty overeducated blue-state snobs who look down on people like them. And, conversely, that Dear Leader really cared about people like them (lol) and he wouldn't do anything too stupid if he got elected and he surely wouldn't do anything that would hurt them personally. And so here we are.
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Yes, they have proven, with their acceptance of Trump's hard times are required, that the economy want the issue.
 
ZenMode said:
The process by which she was coronated as the Dem candidate rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, I believe. However, if you're going to coronate someone, why would you pick Harris? I know she was VP, but she was also awkward, not a good public speaker and had a lot of baggage in her past that someone, or many someones, on the Dem side had to have called out.
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I just don't think there was any other option. It was either going to be a major fight within the Democratic party apparatus or Harris or I suppose Jill Biden.

At that late stage, I don't think primary is logistically feasible. The States run those things and they aren't particularly fast.

I think Harris was as close to a consensus candidate as you were going to get for the Democratic base to rally around. But yeah, she was a terrible candidate.
 
dukeman92 said:
A primary told us all we needed to know about Trump and morons still clamored to vote for him.

Jill Biden might have been awesome. That's not really the point. The point is that Harris was a more than qualified candidate. People who cast their vote for Donald Trump, while saying stupid shit like Harris slept her way to the top of elected positions, told on themselves. And maybe every Trump voter isn't a racist piece of shit. But he couldn't have won without the racist piece of shit portion of the electorate. And those people will never vote for a black woman. No matter what her qualifications are/were.
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Great. We get to call some Republicans racist. That makes some people feel really good but it still means Trump is in office.

I'm sure there are people that are never going to vote for a black person, but Obama showed you don't need those people. You do need the people that will vote for a black person and Kamala didn't get as many of those as she needed to.

Maybe no Democrat could have. Inflation was a pretty big issue with the electorate so the incumbent party was going to take a hit. But Harris did okay out of the gate as the anti-trump candidate. She really faltered as the Harris candidate which a whole lot of people didn't really like as the campaign went on and people got more exposed to her.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Great. We get to call some Republicans racist. That makes some people feel really good but it still means Trump is in office.

I'm sure there are people that are never going to vote for a black person, but Obama showed you don't need those people. You do need the people that will vote for a black person and Kamala didn't get as many of those as she needed to.

Maybe no Democrat could have. Inflation was a pretty big issue with the electorate so the incumbent party was going to take a hit. But Harris did okay out of the gate as the anti-trump candidate. She really faltered as the Harris candidate which a whole lot of people didn't really like as the campaign went on and people got more exposed to her.
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It. Was. All. About. The. Racism.

Just look at where Trump has gone truly hog wild: DEI. They are blowing everything up trying to stamp out DEI. His base largely approves of him -- despite the terrible economy and tariffs -- for that reason. It's the racism, stupid.

Obama was neck and neck with McCain until the financial crisis, even though McCain was an awful candidate, picked the biggest mockery for VP probably ever, the war effort in Iraq was a travesty and the economy was in bad shape.

Obama went on to a huge victory after McCain shut down his campaign and Congress focused on the TARP bailout and the economy headed for the worst recession since the Depression and the financial system completely shut down. If Obama was white, it probably would have a 1984 style blowout. No incumbent party has ever had a worse track record to run on, that I can remember.

In 2012, he won narrowly as an incumbent.

Obama's election does not tell you very much about racism in American politics.
 
ZenMode said:
The process by which she was coronated as the Dem candidate rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, I believe. However, if you're going to coronate someone, why would you pick Harris? I know she was VP, but she was also awkward, not a good public speaker and had a lot of baggage in her past that someone, or many someones, on the Dem side had to have called out.
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Oh how I remember the demands that someone like Big Gretch had to have the chance at the nomination. Well, she couldn't own up to doing business at the White House and covered her face when the cameras came out. And to follow that one up, she was caught unprepared when she was asked to speak when Trump came to her state to do business. Now we know she couldn't have pulled it off. Fact is, it takes a two year process to really find out.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I think Harris was as close to a consensus candidate as you were going to get for the Democratic base to rally around. But yeah, she was a terrible candidate.
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Terrible candidate only in the sense she lost, but even that doesn't necessarily mean she was a terrible candidate. But if that's your criterion, that means Trump was the worst candidate of all time in 2020, and he was even closer to a consensus candidate in 2020 than Kamala was in 2024...
 
hedge said:
Terrible candidate only in the sense she lost, but even that doesn't necessarily mean she was a terrible candidate. But if that's your criterion, that means Trump was the worst candidate of all time in 2020, and he was even closer to a consensus candidate in 2020 than Kamala was in 2024...
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You know as much as we dog Trump for kind of being an idiot and not really understand the issues and being an absolutely lunatic, he was actually a really good candidate.

He's a weak president but he is a really good candidate. He is as media savvy as anybody since Reagan. He has Obama/Bill Clinton level charisma. And more than anything, he knew how to keep the attention focused on him at the expense of the other candidates.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Great. We get to call some Republicans racist. That makes some people feel really good but it still means Trump is in office.

I'm sure there are people that are never going to vote for a black person, but Obama showed you don't need those people. You do need the people that will vote for a black person and Kamala didn't get as many of those as she needed to.

Maybe no Democrat could have. Inflation was a pretty big issue with the electorate so the incumbent party was going to take a hit. But Harris did okay out of the gate as the anti-trump candidate. She really faltered as the Harris candidate which a whole lot of people didn't really like as the campaign went on and people got more exposed to her.
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We don't get to call some republicans racist. Republicans ARE racist. Inflation was a big issue the world over. And it was well on it's way to torpedoing our economy long before Joe Biden spanked Trumps fat orange ass. We all know this... I have no desire to rehash those details, which have been repeated all over this forum for the last six months.

There were things I found myself wanting to hear from Harris that I never heard. And quite frankly, towards the end, her answers, which remained pretty constant, grew stale. That didn't deter me from voting for her one iota. And none of that makes Jill Biden a better candidate. If you actually listened to both candidates during the election cycle, this choice was a layup. Undecided? give me a break.
 
dukeman92 said:
We don't get to call some republicans racist. Republicans ARE racist. Inflation was a big issue the world over. And it was well on it's way to torpedoing our economy long before Joe Biden spanked Trumps fat orange ass. We all know this... I have no desire to rehash those details, which have been repeated all over this forum for the last six months.

There were things I found myself wanting to hear from Harris that I never heard. And quite frankly, towards the end, her answers, which remained pretty constant, grew stale. That didn't deter me from voting for her one iota. And none of that makes Jill Biden a better candidate. If you actually listened to both candidates during the election cycle, this choice was a layup. Undecided? give me a break.
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I guess if you've decided Republicans are racist based on conversations you have had with a bunch of other people that tell you Republicans are racist, then there's no need to rehash the details about Republicans being racist.

I assume your suggestion is to only run pale candidates with a decent resume and keep the same Democratic platform that people say they don't like but really they're just pretending so they don't have to admit they're racist and we should win. Sounds pretty easy.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I guess if you've decided Republicans are racist based on conversations you have had with a bunch of other people that tell you Republicans are racist, then there's no need to rehash the details about Republicans being racist.

I assume your suggestion is to only run pale candidates with a decent resume and keep the same Democratic platform that people say they don't like but really they're just pretending so they don't have to admit they're racist and we should win. Sounds pretty easy.
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I haven't "decided Republicans are racist"

There's a saying in recruiting. Watch what they do, not what they say. It applies to politicians.

You know the old axiom about assuming.
 
Most of the white people that I grew up with voted for trump. Those people surrendered to their racist inclinations rather than fighting them.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
You know as much as we dog Trump for kind of being an idiot and not really understand the issues and being an absolutely lunatic, he was actually a really good candidate.

He's a weak president but he is a really good candidate. He is as media savvy as anybody since Reagan. He has Obama/Bill Clinton level charisma.
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For idiots, yes. For people who could detect that everything he ever said was bullshit, that he was always lying, who could see that he was running on a platform of hate -- that's not a good candidate.
 
superrific said:
For idiots, yes. For people who could detect that everything he ever said was bullshit, that he was always lying, who could see that he was running on a platform of hate -- that's not a good candidate.
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Convincing idiots to vote for you is not easy. If it were, everyone could be president. Unfortunately, the skills needed to be elected president and the skills needed to be president are very different.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
You know as much as we dog Trump for kind of being an idiot and not really understand the issues and being an absolutely lunatic, he was actually a really good candidate.

He's a weak president but he is a really good candidate. He is as media savvy as anybody since Reagan. He has Obama/Bill Clinton level charisma. And more than anything, he knew how to keep the attention focused on him at the expense of the other candidates.
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What the fuck...

Describe good candidate as you see it, because I cannot agree.

He was just lucky that he had the time and money to run for 4 years. That lots of uninformed voters like the macho make fun of other's type. I mean, look at our own Silence DoNoGood, he gets really excited to see others misfortunes.

Him winning says less about his qualifications as a candidate and more about our school system.
 
I was listening to a podcast today that stated that voters that regularly watched the news slightly favored Harris. Voters that get most of their news from social media, slightly favored trump. Voters that typically do not engage in the news greatly voted for trump.
 
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