MAGA embraces colonialism/imperialism

SnoopRob said:
I've been thinking about this thread title and I'm not sure that MAGA was ever against colonialism/imperialism.

As I know I've said before on here, I live in Trump Country; my county went over 70% for Trump in all 3 elections, most of my extended family are MAGA, and I interact with MAGA folks on a daily basis.

I think what has bothered a lot of MAGA about US interventionism hasn't been that we've been involved in international military actions, I think it's been that we've been involved in international military actions where the US didn't obviously and directly benefit from doing so.
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This is what initially created MAGA. Tons of people had been calling for a border wall; that wasn't new. What was new was "Mexico will pay." It's basically rapist logic: we are going to give you the middle finger, and you're going to pay us for it whether you like it or not.

I think it will be helpful to make "rapist logic" a recognized phrase. Because at its core, that is what MAGA is all about. It's all about coercing others to please you. It isn't principled coercion -- i.e. everyone must pay taxes because we need to run a government, or you can't dump radioactive waste into drinking water, because people will die. It's the opposite. It's "what I want right now, I will get just because." And that is MAGA to a T. Which is why Andrew Tate is such a natural fit, and also Elon Musk.
 
superrific said:
This is what initially created MAGA. Tons of people had been calling for a border wall; that wasn't new. What was new was "Mexico will pay." It's basically rapist logic: we are going to give you the middle finger, and you're going to pay us for it whether you like it or not.

I think it will be helpful to make "rapist logic" a recognized phrase. Because at its core, that is what MAGA is all about. It's all about coercing others to please you. It isn't principled coercion -- i.e. everyone must pay taxes because we need to run a government, or you can't dump radioactive waste into drinking water, because people will die. It's the opposite. It's "what I want right now, I will get just because." And that is MAGA to a T. Which is why Andrew Tate is such a natural fit, and also Elon Musk.
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An aside
But I would never vote for The Secretary of Defense for Dog catcher
To me he is a great example of a profile of a Rapist
 
I think MAGA, and really Democrats too when their guy is in office are mostly okay with breaking International and in some cases US law as long as no or very few Americans die. But when you get long wars with hundreds of Americans dying, support spikes and then turns into opposition, especially from the party outside of power.

I think Trump will be mostly okay politically if he doesn't commit ground troops. Venezuela could turn into Haiti with the subsequent moral, refugee and economic problems and as long as no Americans are killed, Trump won't take much of a hit politically. It sucks but that's what probably is going to happen.
 
superrific said:
This is what initially created MAGA. Tons of people had been calling for a border wall; that wasn't new. What was new was "Mexico will pay." It's basically rapist logic: we are going to give you the middle finger, and you're going to pay us for it whether you like it or not.

I think it will be helpful to make "rapist logic" a recognized phrase. Because at its core, that is what MAGA is all about. It's all about coercing others to please you. It isn't principled coercion -- i.e. everyone must pay taxes because we need to run a government, or you can't dump radioactive waste into drinking water, because people will die. It's the opposite. It's "what I want right now, I will get just because." And that is MAGA to a T. Which is why Andrew Tate is such a natural fit, and also Elon Musk.
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What you're describing is populism, in general, although a few things you mention are peculiar to MAGA.

In general, populism is a trade-off free approach to government where "the people" get what they want and someone else bears all the costs or disadvantages. Insofar as MAGA is populist in nature, and it is, that foundational attribute is going to be true of MAGA.

I do think you're correct that MAGA is particularly cruel in their outlook and so Trump's actions reflect that cruelty. That might be why you label it as "rapist logic" rather than "fairytale logic" or something similar. The "I get what I want" mindset is populism, but the "I want to make others suffer" is more specific to MAGA.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I think MAGA, and really Democrats too when their guy is in office are mostly okay with breaking International and in some cases US law
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No, Democrats are not okay with breaking international law. That's precisely why Biden wanted to end Remain in Mexico. It was illegal under US and international law.

The Democrats want to respect our free trade commitments precisely because they were commitments; the GOP doesn't give a fuck. The Democrats want to respect the Convention Against Torture because it is a commitment (and also torture is wrong); the GOP doesn't give a fuck. The parties have sorted over capacity to think in terms of principle.

Basically, people who like to honor national commitments = Democrats. Other people = Republicans. It wasn't always that way but it is now.
 
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