Mass Shooting & Gun Violence | LDS Church Attacked

[ZZLPHeels]

I agree its not going to happen soon but a semi-auto ban would drastically decrease mass shooting's while a handgun ban would drastically reduce the overall murder rate.

But a semi-auto with detachable magazine would drastically decrease mass shootings while also allowing almost everyone to do almost everything that they do today. I can't understand why people wouldn't at least consider that.

Mass shootings (by the FBI definition since there are several definitions out there) only make up a tiny fraction of gun deaths annually. Denying people the ability to protect themselves or their families from well-armed home invaders who already don’t follow the rules is not going to sell, nor should it IMO.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

no, not primarily.

suicides by firearm generally account for 30-50% of annual gun deaths.

the vast majority of children who are killed by guns aren't suicide victims.

The vast majority of “children” who are killed by guns are 16-19 year olds who are killed in gang or drug-related violence, typically by people using illegal guns that they aren’t allowed to own in the first place. Going after those individuals would dramatically reduce gun deaths with no new legislation needed.

 

[4thgenheel]

Mostly due to gang and drug-related violence. If you don’t want to own a handgun, no one is forcing you to do so. I’m certainly glad that my household owns one, though, as it has already thwarted one home invasion.

approximately half of the women who are murdered in this country each year are killed by current or past intimate partners and approximately half of those murders are by firearm.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

Cool. If people want guns at home, I've got no problem with it. I don't even have a problem with them using them at home to commit suicide. I do have a little problem with four-year-olds shooting two-year-olds, but I guess lousy parenting can kill kids in a variety of ways. Bottom line - I fully support people's right to FAFO at home.

I’m all for safe storage legislation. There are gun safes now that allow you to open the device within seconds while preventing unauthorized access. There is no reason a parent should NOT be charged if their kid gets ahold of an unsecured gun and hurts themselves or someone else with it, IMO.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

approximately half of the women who are murdered in this country each year are killed by current or past intimate partners and approximately half of those murders are by firearm.

If a woman’s partner is going to murder her, it makes no difference if he uses a handgun or a shotgun. A shotgun will do much more damage with much less ammunition. They are also typically much cheaper than handguns.

 

[4thgenheel]

If a woman’s partner is going to murder her, it makes no difference if he uses a handgun or a shotgun. A shotgun will do much more damage with much less ammunition. They are also typically much cheaper than handguns.

weird non-sequitur. i didn't say anything about the type of firearm and i already made it clear itt that i believe that handguns should be legal, though more stringently regulated.

 

[4thgenheel]

I’m all for safe storage legislation. There are gun safes now that allow you to open the device within seconds while preventing unauthorized access. There is no reason a parent should NOT be charged if their kid gets ahold of an unsecured gun and hurts themselves or someone else with it, IMO.

not just kids. your gun, your responsibility.

safety training and secure storage are critical to responsible gun ownership.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

One more thing on gun control: the Democrats need to be careful what they wish for. We are in unprecedented territory now with Trump and his minions. It is not unthinkable that in the near future bands of his supporters could be targeting non MAGATs and might even have the support of some segments of the government in doing so. Do you really want the only ones with guns to be the Trumpets?

 

[gtyellowjacket]

Mass shootings (by the FBI definition since there are several definitions out there) only make up a tiny fraction of gun deaths annually. Denying people the ability to protect themselves or their families from well-armed home invaders who already don’t follow the rules is not going to sell, nor should it IMO.

Its not denying families the ability to protect themselves from anyone unless you are on the run from the kgb. You prevented a home invasion with a gun. Could you have done it with a revolver or a shotgun with internal mag?

Also, you are right that they aren't going to sell but they should in my opinion.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

Its not denying families the ability to protect themselves from anyone unless you are on the run from the kgb. You prevented a home invasion with a gun. Could you have done it with a revolver or a shotgun with internal mag?

Also, you are right that they aren't going to sell but they should in my opinion.

I didn’t do anything as I wasn’t home at the time. In our case the mere presence of the gun caused the intruder to flee, so the type of gun wouldn’t have mattered. However, if there is more than one invader or if the criminal is using a standard semi-auto, being outgunned by them is going to put the victim at a significant disadvantage.

There is a reason 99% of beat cops no longer carry revolvers but carry semi-automatic handguns now. Also, the shotguns that used to be in the trunk of the police cruisers have been replaced with rifles.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

I didn’t do anything as I wasn’t home at the time. In our case the mere presence of the gun caused the intruder to flee, so the type of gun wouldn’t have mattered. However, if there is more than one invader or if the criminal is using a standard semi-auto, being outgunned by them is going to put the victim at a significant disadvantage.

There is a reason 99% of beat cops no longer carry revolvers but carry semi-automatic handguns now. Also, the shotguns that used to be in the trunk of the police cruisers have been replaced with rifles.

If a gun isn't available for purchase and the vast majority of the existing ones have been turned in or modified, it would be extremely unlikely that a criminal would have it. Criminals don't routinely carry automatic weapons or grenade launchers despite the desire.

 

[dukeman92]

One more thing on gun control: the Democrats need to be careful what they wish for. We are in unprecedented territory now with Trump and his minions. It is not unthinkable that in the near future bands of his supporters could be targeting non MAGATs and might even have the support of some segments of the government in doing so. Do you really want the only ones with guns to be the Trumpets?

If this is allowed to continue (Project 2025 fascist takeover of America) they will eventually come after guns. Every Fascist regime does.

 

[superrific]

I didn’t do anything as I wasn’t home at the time. In our case the mere presence of the gun caused the intruder to flee, so the type of gun wouldn’t have mattered.

How do you know it was the gun who made the intruder flee?

When I was teaching, I had a student ask me how he should deal with a conviction he had for home intrusion when applying to be admitted to the bar. He had gotten drunk and accidentally wandered into the wrong house and crashed on the sofa. The residents yelled at him and told him they had a gun, at which point he realized the problem and left. The residents had called the cops and they found him as they arrived. He pleaded to a misdemeanor, which was suspended pending rehab for a drinking problem.

An isolated example? That's what I thought. But then ANOTHER student approached me with the same issue. His was easier -- it was in a barn so much less threatening. But still -- I was shocked. So I looked into it. Apparently, it had been so common that the municipality had to relax the criminal penalties associated with non-violent drunken invasion because the prosecutors' office was overwhelmed with that offense and it was crowding out prosecutions for more dangerous crimes. I suppose the municipality didn't **HAVE TO** reduce the penalty; they could have relied on prosecutors' discretion but that raises lots of issues with racial justice and equal treatment.

I'd bet that a lot of those homeowners thought their guns had protected them from injury, when in reality it was just drunken college or law school kids being idiots. This is why we use statistics to analyze problems. Because anecdotes like yours rarely come with knowledge of what would have happened in a different situation, making them analytically meaningless.

 

[superrific]

I would be interested to see if the guy really had CTE or he was just someone who was mad he didn't become a NFL player, and felt like he was a loser with where he was in life currently.

1. He couldn't have known he had CTE. That's only a diagnosis that can be made post-mortem, as far as I know.
2. He might have had other mental problems, which he interpreted as being CTE. Perhaps schizophrenia or some form of paranoia.
3. It's possible he had CTE but I think CTE is exceedingly rare for people who stopped playing football in HS. I could be wrong about that.
4. It's also possible that he decided to kill himself, but wanted to take out somebody bad with him -- and maybe he had a friend with a CTE like condition. Or just going by media reports. Maybe his favorite player was Aaron Hernandez -- something like that.

 

[milom98]

One more thing on gun control: the Democrats need to be careful what they wish for. We are in unprecedented territory now with Trump and his minions. It is not unthinkable that in the near future bands of his supporters could be targeting non MAGATs and might even have the support of some segments of the government in doing so. Do you really want the only ones with guns to be the Trumpets?

And several post of yours before this one you accused others of gaslighting?

Classic!!!!

 

[ZZLPHeels]

If a gun isn't available for purchase and the vast majority of the existing ones have been turned in or modified, it would be extremely unlikely that a criminal would have it. Criminals don't routinely carry automatic weapons or grenade launchers despite the desire.

There are tens of millions, if not more, of handguns currently in circulation. Criminals are already banned from owning or using them and yet they still have no difficulty with either. Taking them away from law-abiding citizens will only give the criminals the advantage. Not worth it.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

There are tens of millions, if not more, of handguns currently in circulation. Criminals are already banned from owning or using them and yet they still have no difficulty with either. Taking them away from law-abiding citizens will only give the criminals the advantage. Not worth it.

That really hasn't been the experience of people in countries that have tightened gun control. Heck, that hasn't been the experience in the United States when we have tightened gun control in the past.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

That really hasn't been the experience of people in countries that have tightened gun control. Heck, that hasn't been the experience in the United States when we have tightened gun control in the past.

The United States is not like most other countries. No other country has had more guns than people and then tried to take 90% of those guns away. It simply wouldn’t happen here, nor should it. You want to reduce gun crime substantially? Enforce the laws that are already on the books. Disarm criminals before disarming law-abiding citizens.

 

[Callatoroy]

If a gun isn't available for purchase and the vast majority of the existing ones have been turned in or modified, it would be extremely unlikely that a criminal would have it. Criminals don't routinely carry automatic weapons or grenade launchers despite the desire.

"IF". The left always wants to argue this issue in the "IF" realm. Start looking at the issue from a realist pov.

1. Guns will always be for purchase because its a constitutional right
2. There are now close to 400 million guns in the US. You can't force people to "turn in" their guns so an ample supply will always exist

Now considering those two constants, what argument can you make?

 

[Callatoroy]

If this is allowed to continue (Project 2025 fascist takeover of America) they will eventually come after guns. Every Fascist regime does.