Mass Shooting & Gun Violence | LDS Church Attacked

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Band aids won’t change anything.
Nothing else will happen.
America’s gun culture is firmly entrenched for the foreseeable future.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
I’m fine with all of that but you know it is a non-starter for both conservatives and progressives. We’re paralyzed in this cycle for the foreseeable future.
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I think you’ve miscalculated the progressive position. As for conservatives, yes. They would fight this tooth and nail and not because it infringes on their rights at all.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I doubt any of those would have helped with this girl but would possibly make a dent in the gangland type shootings.
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I think if parents knew they could be facing bankruptcy or felony charges for not taking proper measures to secure a gun, they would have do so. Admittedly I don’t know how accessible the gun was in this particular case.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
I think if parents knew they could be facing bankruptcy or felony charges for not taking proper measures to secure a gun, they would have do so. Admittedly I don’t know how accessible the gun was in this particular case.
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I think it's just one of those things that no one thinks is going to happen to them.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
I think you’ve miscalculated the progressive position. As for conservatives, yes. They would fight this tooth and nail and not because it infringes on their rights at all.
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Look at the article I posted a couple of pages ago about the Durham DA refusing to prosecute felons in possession of illegal firearms.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Look at the article I posted a couple of pages ago about the Durham DA refusing to prosecute felons in possession of illegal firearms.
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That same article notes that the Wake County DA, who is a Democrat, and the Orange County DA, who is a Democrat elected primarily by residents of Chapel Hill and Carrboro, prioritize prosecuting felons in possession of illegal firearms. Dropping felony gun charges doesn't seem like a universal policy of progressive DA's.
 
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Ramrouser said:
15 yr old female anti male lefty feminist (perhaps trans) with a manifesto Story will fade as it doesn’t meet the chosen narrative (like the trans Nashville shooting) Media wanted it to be a male, MAGA Christian Nationalist shooter.
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Given it’s a topic of such interest for you, how were you unable to discern that the shooter was not trans?
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I think it's just one of those things that no one thinks is going to happen to them.
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ZZLPHeels said:
Most of them involve people who were shot (not killed) and were not students. But they should be treated differently because they are different phenomena with different root causes that require different actions to prevent. An active shooter hell bent on killing as many kids as possible is different from a drug dealer fighting with a rival in the parking lot outside of a basketball game. Gang violence is different than random rampages.

According to Everytown, Black teens are 18 times more likely to die from gun violence than White teens. Yet they aren’t dying en masse from mass shootings at schools. Failing to differentiate can lead to solutions that benefit more affluent groups and ignore the root causes of violence in disadvantaged communities.
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Seems like you’re focusing on the wrong thing and it smells like bullshit.
 
This is one issue that I will sadly admit that I have completely given up on. There is simply no way in our current political and cultural situation that there is ever going to be any kind of significant gun control legislation passed. In fact, not only are (mostly) red states adamantly refusing to look at even mild gun control measures, but in many of these states there are now concealed carry and even open carry laws so civilians can walk around and look and feel tough and safe, like the Wild West. If the cold-blooded murder of 20 kids between the ages of 6 and 7 at Sandy Hook didn't move the needle on this issue then nothing will, and every school shooting since has just proven it. There's always an excuse not to do anything substantive, and it seems clear to me that as a society too many of us have decided that the occasional murder of schoolkids is simply the price we all have to pay for our precious Second Amendment rights to own lots and lots of pew pew pews. And I don't see that changing in my lifetime, unfortunately.
 
Mulberry Heel said:
This is one issue that I will sadly admit that I have completely given up on. There is simply no way in our current political and cultural situation that there is ever going to be any kind of significant gun control legislation passed. In fact, not only are (mostly) red states adamantly refusing to look at even mild gun control measures, but in many of these states there are now concealed carry and even open carry laws for civilians to walk around and look and feel tough and safe, like the Wild West. If the cold-blooded murder of 20 kids between the ages of 6 and 7 at Sandy Hook didn't move the needle on this issue then nothing will, and every school shooting since has just proven it. There's always an excuse not to do anything substantive, and it seems clear that as a society too many of us have decided that the occasional murder of schoolkids is simply the price we all have to pay for our precious Second Amendment rights to own lots and lots of pew pew pews. And I don't see that changing in my lifetime, unfortunately.
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I agree. I thought we could come to a compromise but the Republicans have absolutely owned the issue. Even the smallest gun control proposal is seized upon to pillory any Democrat and sympathetic independent and Republican voters seem to care more about other stuff.

It's hard for me to fathom because to me it's a pretty big deal but there it is.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
That same article notes that the Wake County DA, who is a Democrat, and the Orange County DA, who is a Democrat elected primarily by residents of Chapel Hill and Carrboro, prioritize prosecuting felons in possession of illegal firearms. Dropping felony gun charges doesn't seem like a universal policy of progressive DA's.
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True, but Durham is much more progressive than Wake and Orange doesn't have the crime problem that Durham has. Durham also got rid of ShotSpotter despite pleas from the Mayor, police chief, and many residents to keep it. Point being that while the right is vehemently opposed to any new gun safety legislation regardless of how reasonable it might be, some on the left are vehemently opposed to using existing tools and laws to reduce gun crime.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
True, but Durham is much more progressive than Wake and Orange doesn't have the crime problem that Durham has. Durham also got rid of ShotSpotter despite pleas from the Mayor, police chief, and many residents to keep it. Point being that while the right is vehemently opposed to any new gun safety legislation regardless of how reasonable it might be, some on the left are vehemently opposed to using existing tools and laws to reduce gun crime.
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farce© said:
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Ask the people in Durham if this is simple what-aboutism. It is an example close to home of real-life consequences of progressive beliefs about gun crime. Ignoring it isn't going to save any lives. But that's what too many do when confronted with challenges to their own beliefs.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
True, but Durham is much more progressive than Wake and Orange doesn't have the crime problem that Durham has. Durham also got rid of ShotSpotter despite pleas from the Mayor, police chief, and many residents to keep it. Point being that while the right is vehemently opposed to any new gun safety legislation regardless of how reasonable it might be, some on the left are vehemently opposed to using existing tools and laws to reduce gun crime.
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To be fair, ShotSpotter was highly controversial and its effectiveness was questionable. Shootings actually increased in Durham during the year ShotSpotter was piloted, and something like 90% of ShotSpotter reports couldn’t be confirmed by police when they investigated. Also, many residents thought it led to over-policing in black neighborhoods.

 
EyeballKid said:
To be fair, ShotSpotter was highly controversial and its effectiveness was questionable. Shootings actually increased in Durham during the year ShotSpotter was piloted, and something like 90% of ShotSpotter reports couldn’t be confirmed by police when they investigated. Also, many residents thought it led to over-policing in black neighborhoods.

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Yet for the price it resulted in the police being alerted to shootings that were otherwise not reported, got illegal weapons off of the street (although the DA would dismiss those charges anyways), and in other cities such as Winston-Salem and Fayetteville led to the police discovering gunshot victims sooner and as a result led to those victims being transported to the hospital faster and having a better chance of survival. The arguments against it were simply variations of "ACAB".
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Yet for the price it resulted in the police being alerted to shootings that were otherwise not reported, got illegal weapons off of the street (although the DA would dismiss those charges anyways), and in other cities such as Winston-Salem and Fayetteville led to the police discovering gunshot victims sooner and as a result led to those victims being transported to the hospital faster and having a better chance of survival. The arguments against it were simply variations of "ACAB".
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No…the arguments were that in Durham, it sent police on a lot of wild goose chases and didn’t decrease gun violence.

That’s not “ACAB.”
 
EyeballKid said:
No…the arguments were that in Durham, it sent police on a lot of wild goose chases and didn’t decrease gun violence.

That’s not “ACAB.”
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You'd think if that were the argument then the police would have been against ShotSpotter. That wasn't the case. The police were all for it, because many of those "wild goose chases" turned out to be actual shootings. Many (but not all) of the arguments against it were because the opponents didn't like the "overpolicing of Black neighborhoods".

Also, expecting ShotSpotter by itself to decrease gun violence is not realistic. ShotSpotter is a tool. There are many tools that have to be used together in order to reduce gun violence. If Shotspotter leads to felons being arrested with firearms (it did), and the DA simply dismisses those charges, that's not on ShotSpotter. ShotSpotter did what it was supposed to do. The DA failed on their end.

In Fayetteville, ShotSpotter was renewed and homicides are down 50% with violent-crime in general at a 10-year low.

 
EyeballKid said:
No…the arguments were that in Durham, it sent police on a lot of wild goose chases and didn’t decrease gun violence.

That’s not “ACAB.”
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You are entering the endless bullshit loop. Bo always has to have the last word. The next time he walks away from a disagreement (especially about guns or police misconduct) will be the first time he does so. Don’t waste your time.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
You'd think if that were the argument then the police would have been against ShotSpotter. That wasn't the case. The police were all for it, because many of those "wild goose chases" turned out to be actual shootings. Many (but not all) of the arguments against it were because the opponents didn't like the "overpolicing of Black neighborhoods".
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ZZLPHeels said:
You'd think if that were the argument then the police would have been against ShotSpotter. That wasn't the case. The police were all for it, because many of those "wild goose chases" turned out to be actual shootings. Many (but not all) of the arguments against it were because the opponents didn't like the "overpolicing of Black neighborhoods".

Also, expecting ShotSpotter by itself to decrease gun violence is not realistic. ShotSpotter is a tool. There are many tools that have to be used together in order to reduce gun violence. If Shotspotter leads to felons being arrested with firearms (it did), and the DA simply dismisses those charges, that's not on ShotSpotter. ShotSpotter did what it was supposed to do. The DA failed on their end.

In Fayetteville, ShotSpotter was renewed and homicides are down 50% with violent-crime in general at a 10-year low.

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Charlotte dropped ShotSpotter years ago for the same reasons Durham did. It’s not a proven, cost effective tool. It has shown mixed results in nearly every pilot program.

I’ll not argue this further, because it’s clear you’re going to beat this horse to death.
 
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