Mass Shooting & Gun Violence | Wisconsin school shooting today (4 victims plus shooter dead, more injured)

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StrangePackage said:
Why should the default be "responsible gun owners"? Why should we assume responsibility when clearly that assumption costs thousands of lives annually?
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The default gun owner is responsible. That’s how we have 400 million guns in this country and roughly 15,000 homicides annually. The exceptions make the news, not the norm.
 
I don't worry about being struck by lightening. That's because I understand the risk factors for getting struck by lightening and avoid them. (Once my father-in-law and I were standing on a pier reveling in the cool breeze that was blowing in advance of a summer thunder storm. Then my FiL said, "(05C40) your hair is standing on end." We ran off that pier into the bait shop/restaurant at the base.) But with school shootings, other than the country being awash in assault rifles, what are the risk factors? It is the unknown and unknowable risk factors for school shooting that make their danger seem so disproportional to the actual risk.
 
akillesheel said:
I don't think you're realizing what happens in several of those instances that you're brushing aside as not violent enough to matter. The results are not what leave people traumatized, it's the process. A gunshot is heard and, with no other information, everybody at the school is told there have been gunshots on campus and to lock down in their rooms and take cover. Students know of the possibility they might be killed, so they start texting their parents and friends like they may never see them again. Teachers start having to make decisions about how much to weigh their own self-preservation versus that of their students, which is a responsibility they are neither trained nor paid enough for. Everybody is trying to imagine who of their friends or colleagues or even acquaintances could have been shot or be the shooter. All of that happens even if only a single person, or even nobody, is actually harmed, and it doesn't just go away once the actual facts come out.

My wife has been in the vicinity of two public shootings at night, when I wasn't there, in the past three years: one at her workplace, one at a Nationals game. The shooting at her workplace turned out to be a conflict between two security guards that didn't extend beyond them, and she wasn't close to any of the violence at the stadium. And yet, I still have nightmares sometimes about her calling me in both cases to say there's a shooter nearby and that she wasn't sure what was next.
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With all due respect, the sensationalism about these shootings is a significant contributor to these anxieties, which is why I pointed it out. If you tell students on day 1 “I hope you guys can survive this year, but man it isn’t looking likely”, of course they are going to freak out during an isolated incident in which some dude gets shot in the toe. On the other hand, if you tell them “listen I know there was a shooting in Florida last year, but these things are still very rare and 99.999% of kids will never have to worry about getting shot at school”, then they aren’t as likely to panic during those isolated incidents that actually pose zero threat to them.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
The default gun owner is responsible. That’s how we have 400 million guns in this country and roughly 15,000 homicides annually. The exceptions make the news, not the norm.
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How many gun *owners* though? That's the question.

And it's not just homicide, unless you think that suicide is also the province of "responsible gun ownership"? And non fatal shooting injuries?
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Statistically speaking they will be just fine. These incidents are high visibility but low frequency events that only impact a fraction of a fraction of a percent of students, thankfully.
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Oh yeah that makes it solid. "Hey just a few dozen kids get murdered in English class. No big deal"
 
StrangePackage said:
How many gun *owners* though? That's the question.

And it's not just homicide, unless you think that suicide is also the province of "responsible gun ownership"?
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I believe something like 40% of households in the US own at least one firearm. Even if you include suicides they still add up to less than one percent of gun owners. And a large proportion of gun homicides are committed by people not legally allowed to own guns to begin with.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
With all due respect, the sensationalism about these shootings is a significant contributor to these anxieties, which is why I pointed it out. If you tell students on day 1 “I hope you guys can survive this year, but man it isn’t looking likely”, of course they are going to freak out during an isolated incident in which some dude gets shot in the toe. On the other hand, if you tell them “listen I know there was a shooting in Florida last year, but these things are still very rare and 99.999% of kids will never have to worry about getting shot at school”, then they aren’t as likely to panic during those isolated incidents that actually pose zero threat to them.
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with all due respect, if you think kids, or the majority of adults, would be capable of not panicking when told there was an active shooter on their campus with no other information, i don't think you're capable of having this conversation. if you are going to maintain that the risk to people on that campus is "zero" or minimal even after the introduction of a shot having been fired, i don't think you're capable of having this conversation.
 
akillesheel said:
with all due respect, if you think kids, or the majority of adults, would be capable of not panicking when told there was an active shooter on their campus with no other information, i don't think you're capable of having this conversation. if you are going to maintain that the risk to people on that campus is "zero" or minimal even after the introduction of a shot having been fired, i don't think you're capable of having this conversation.
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I’ve treated a couple of kids and numerous adults who have been shot during the course of my life. No one panicked. Blind panic helps no one. I personally wouldn’t freak out at all if someone I never met got shot in the toe during a fight, and I don’t think 4,000 other people should either. Perhaps instead of instilling fear in these kids that they are absolutely going to die no matter what, a more reasonable approach should be taken. We had tornado drills and fire drills when I was in school. None of us freaked out when it got cloudy outside.
 
Nothng is going to change no matter how much we bitch and moan about it. Too far gone like most of everything else in this country
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
I’ve treated a couple of kids and numerous adults who have been shot during the course of my life. No one panicked. Blind panic helps no one. I personally wouldn’t freak out at all if someone I never met got shot in the toe during a fight, and I don’t think 4,000 other people should either.
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"People who have been shot" and "People who know that somebody they never met got shot in the toe" are not "people who know only that a gun has been fired near them" or "people who are aware/who believe that they are in close vicinity to a firearm." You're moving the goalposts.

Hell, cops claim that last one all the time as a justification for shooting civilians.
 
Meanwhile, a ton of disinformation out there about shooter already. Every time this happens, false claims about the identity of the shooter proliferate while we wait for officially confirmed details.
 
akillesheel said:
"People who have been shot" and "People who know that somebody they never met got shot in the toe" are not "people who know only that a gun has been fired near them" or "people who are aware/who believe that they are in close vicinity to a firearm." You're moving the goalposts.

Hell, cops claim that last one all the time as a justification for shooting civilians.
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I’m willing to wager that when the shooting cited above happened, very few of the 3,600 students at school at the time were even aware it happened. Had it not been for the response and media coverage, they may not have found out about it until well afterwards. That’s partially my point. Traumatizing these kids in situations like that is not helpful IMO. It would be akin to flight attendants screaming at passengers to don their life jackets and brace for impact whenever the plane hit turbulence, and then wondering why people have a fear of flying.
 

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High School received a phone call this morning that warned about shootings, officials say​

From CNN’s John Miller and Mark Morales
The high school at the center of today’s mass shooting in Georgia received an earlier phone threat, multiple law enforcement officials tell CNN.

Law enforcement officials in Georgia say Apalachee High School received a phone call this morning warning that there would be shootings at five schools and that Apalachee would be the first.

It is not known who placed the call. Officials tell CNN they are investigating the call and where it originated.
 
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