Mass Shooting & Gun Violence

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ZZLPHeels said:
The truth about Michael Brown is that he was justifiably shot and killed after robbing a store and violently attacking a police officer who stopped him afterwards.

Lethal force isn't a "punishment". It can only be used in self defense or in the defense of others. The crime that someone is stopped for is not relevant to the amount of force that is used.
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Michael Brown might have been a thug (yes, I saw the videos of his behavior in the store) but he was unarmed, and unnecessary lethal force was used by the officer. There was no justification.
 
Bobfripp said:
Michael Brown might have been a thug (yes, I saw the videos of his behavior in the store) but he was unarmed, and unnecessary lethal force was used by the officer. There was no justification.
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Every single independent investigation disagrees with you. Unarmed people can and have killed police officers by attacking them, disarming them, and using their guns against them. That's exactly what Brown was trying to do when he was shot. His DNA was on Officer Wilson's handgun, and multiple (Black) eyewitnesses testified under oath that they saw Brown physically attacking Wilson. One Black man testified that if he had been armed he would have shot Brown himself.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Every single independent investigation disagrees with you. Unarmed people can and have killed police officers by attacking them, disarming them, and using their guns against them. That's exactly what Brown was trying to do when he was shot. His DNA was on Officer Wilson's handgun, and multiple (Black) eyewitnesses testified under oath that they saw Brown physically attacking Wilson. One Black man testified that if he had been armed he would have shot Brown himself.
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Could the officer have used pepper spray maybe, instead of a gun?
 
Bobfripp said:
Could the officer have used pepper spray maybe, instead of a gun?
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I think the initial confrontation took place with Brown leaning inside of the police cruiser, in which case he was far too close for pepper spray as the officer would have sprayed himself too. Ferguson PD did not equip their officers with tasers at that time either.
 


“… Sanford’s unhealthy obsession may have sprung from a soured relationship with an “extremely religious” Mormon woman who pressured him to join the church when he lived in Utah, a former landlord told The New York Times.

… “He was venting. He was going off…The Mormon Bible had additional books. He did not like that at all. He said he’s a Christian and disagrees that they don’t put Jesus first,” Johns said.…”

——
So a weird example of violence against Christians since it was an apparently self-avowed Christian whose beef is with a specific sect …

Odd coincidence that two mentally disturbed 40-year-old vets going on mass shooting sprees separated by 12 hours and a thousand + miles.
 
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ZZLPHeels said:
I don't mind this to be an insult, but you are kind of an asshole too. I still love you, but you come across as a major dick at times here. I'm not sure which profession you are a part of, but it would be unfair of me to judge all of your colleagues because you can be an asshole sometimes.

Cops are just people. They are prone to flaws like everyone else is, and there are good people and not so good people in every profession. At the same time, by virtue of their occupation cops are constantly exposed to the worst people in society, people who kill, rape, rob, assault, and lie. They are exposed to trauma and suffering and pure shit, all the time. That wears people down, even the best of people. It is a very difficult job. I work in the other two areas of emergency services and have been worn down by seeing that shit day in and day out, and people love Firefighters and Paramedics. Cops deal with the same shit but also have to deal with a large segment of society hating them at the same time. It is a thankless job but a critical one in order for the rest of us to live in relative safety.
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I am an asshole at times on here. Relatedly, this is not my work environment. In my work environments, I have always treated everyone around me with respect and decency -- including the couple of students every semester who were just dicks. And I would never fuck with someone over an injured shoulder. Or someone's medicine.

And there's a lot of responsibility that comes with being an arm of the law. Police officer decisions can fuck up peoples' lives. So if those decisions are made even injudiciously -- to say nothing of the depraved, intentional shit like the Baltimore PD's "rough rides" -- you can expect people to react strongly to "cops." I mean, dookies and woofies are just people too, and yet we think nothing of making assumptions about them with a lot less at stake.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
The truth about Michael Brown is that he was justifiably shot and killed after robbing a store and violently attacking a police officer who stopped him afterwards.

Lethal force isn't a "punishment". It can only be used in self defense or in the defense of others. The crime that someone is stopped for is not relevant to the amount of force that is used.
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lmfao. i hope you know that you're a monster. the ease with which you justify the death of your fellow humans is chilling.

the prosecutor who found Wilson not culpable for any crimes in the case still had this to say: "There are so many points at which Darren Wilson could have handled the situation differently, and if he had, Michael Brown might still be alive."
 
akillesheel said:
lmfao. i hope you know that you're a monster. the ease with which you justify the death of your fellow humans is chilling.

the prosecutor who found Wilson not culpable for any crimes in the case still had this to say: "There are so many points at which Darren Wilson could have handled the situation differently, and if he had, Michael Brown might still be alive."
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You should read what Obama’s DOJ had to say about the incident. At the end of the day, a violent individual was killed after apparently trying to kill a cop. I don’t feel bad for him. He made his own decisions. Because of the fake narrative surrounding his death, other people died and many, many other people across the country suffered. Fuck that guy. Do you feel bad for Ashely Babbitt? I don’t, fuck her too.
 
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ChileG said:
The humanity is a breath of fresh air when we need some.
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I work very closely with a Mormon -- devout doesn't seem to be the right word -- ethical and kind are more on the mark. My friend is also a scholar of their faith, among a number of other things. Altogether an admirable person though in many ways their lifestyle is not one that I would imitate.
 
Bobfripp said:
Michael Brown might have been a thug (yes, I saw the videos of his behavior in the store) but he was unarmed, and unnecessary lethal force was used by the officer. There was no justification.
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If it's true that he was trying to grab the cops gun, that certainly seems like justification.

A cop can't afford to get into a struggle with a suspect for control of his gun and we both know why Brown was trying to grab it and it wasn't to set it aside so he and the cop could fist fight.
 
donbosco said:
I work very closely with a Mormon -- devout doesn't seem to be the right word -- ethical and kind are more on the mark. My friend is also a scholar of their faith, among a number of other things. Altogether an admirable person though in many ways their lifestyle is not one that I would imitate.
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I live in a city absolutely full of Mormons. My cul-de-sac is 3/7th Mormon and they are great neighbors and very nice people. My kids grew up with their kids.

Mormons can definitely be judgemental and tend to have a negative, distrusting view of non-Mormons.
 
ZenMode said:
If it's true that he was trying to grab the cops gun, that certainly seems like justification.

A cop can't afford to get into a struggle with a suspect for control of his gun and we both know why Brown was trying to grab it and it wasn't to set it aside so he and the cop could fist fight.
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the cop emptied about 12 bullets into him including 5 after a shot through his eye, tampered with the evidence, and said in an interview after that he only eats at places where he knows racists are welcome. unlike most other cops who get similarly exonerated, even in the same time frame, he's never found work as a cop again. maybe the law is on his side, but simple humanity certainly is not. he may have been justified in killing michael brown, but he certainly was way too eager to do so. the whole point of the "anti-police sentiment" zzlp is railing against is that such killings are justified too easily by cops and people like him who cape for them and see line-stepping as a capital offense.
 
ZenMode said:
I live in a city absolutely full of Mormons. My cul-de-sac is 3/7th Mormon and they are great neighbors and very nice people. My kids grew up with their kids.

Mormons can definitely be judgemental and tend to have a negative, distrusting view of non-Mormons.
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sounds like all 'christian' cults then
 
akillesheel said:
the cop emptied about 12 bullets into him including 5 after a shot through his eye, tampered with the evidence, and said in an interview after that he only eats at places where he knows racists are welcome. unlike most other cops who get similarly exonerated, even in the same time frame, he's never found work as a cop again. maybe the law is on his side, but simple humanity certainly is not. he may have been justified in killing michael brown, but he certainly was way too eager to do so. the whole point of the "anti-police sentiment" zzlp is railing against is that such killings are justified too easily by cops and people like him who cape for them and see line-stepping as a capital offense.
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I tend to agree that cops are permitted to use lethal force too easily, but I don't know if the Brown situation is one of them IF it's true that Brown was trying to grab his gun.
 
akillesheel said:
the cop emptied about 12 bullets into him including 5 after a shot through his eye, tampered with the evidence, and said in an interview after that he only eats at places where he knows racists are welcome. unlike most other cops who get similarly exonerated, even in the same time frame, he's never found work as a cop again. maybe the law is on his side, but simple humanity certainly is not. he may have been justified in killing michael brown, but he certainly was way too eager to do so. the whole point of the "anti-police sentiment" zzlp is railing against is that such killings are justified too easily by cops and people like him who cape for them and see line-stepping as a capital offense.
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He’s never found work again because he was vilified by the media, by politicians and publicly called a murderer by Kamala Harris even after the facts came out. By all accounts, prior to the shooting he was one of the “good cops” and had an excellent relationship with the people that he served. His only mistake that day was not letting a criminal murder him, and for that he was forced into hiding for the rest of his life. Another reason why good people have left law enforcement or never consider it in the first place anymore.
 
ZenMode said:
I live in a city absolutely full of Mormons. My cul-de-sac is 3/7th Mormon and they are great neighbors and very nice people. My kids grew up with their kids.

Mormons can definitely be judgemental and tend to have a negative, distrusting view of non-Mormons.
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Interestingly my Mormon friend is a renegade left-of-center member.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
He’s never found work again because he was vilified by the media, by politicians and publicly called a murderer by Kamala Harris even after the facts came out. By all accounts, prior to the shooting he was one of the “good cops” and had an excellent relationship with the people that he served. His only mistake that day was not letting a criminal murder him, and for that he was forced into hiding for the rest of his life. Another reason why good people have left law enforcement or never consider it in the first place anymore.
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Man, Michael Brown was one guy. You ask that one situation to do a LOT of fucking work for you here. Michael Brown was not why people are leaving law enforcement.

And that isn't why Darren Wilson hasn't found work again. Do you know him? I don't. But I can see that cops who get acquitted in high profile shootings get re-hired despite all the attention. Or aren't actually fired. Either way, cops who kill lose employability when they are convicted, and not before then. The list of names for that is much, much, much longer than Darren Wilson.
 
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