NCAA Men’s Basketball Tournament Thread

[UNCatTech]

Hey remember when Dan Hurley was the most amazing coach in history because he stampeded through the tournament with multiple lottery picks?

And it's not simply that Duke has multiple lottery picks. Among them is a generational talent, the most talented college player since Durant.

Remember, Jerry Tarkanian (nobody's idea of a brilliant coach) also stampeded through an NCAA tournament when he had Larry Johnson.

With NIL they probably win that second year also.

 

[stankeylegjones]

If one school allows a player to get away with sexual assault until the quality of his play declined, what makes you think they wouldn't have different standards for academics as well?

I know PJ wasn't accused of sexual assault. That's the point. He was suspended over offenses that would be considered minor compared to sexual assault. And yet Roy brought down the disciplinary hammer more quickly and definitively than K did for the rapist.

Ah, I see your point. Note that I never said that Katan cared about anything other than winning, and pumping up his ego.

School A could have lower academic standards than school B for their athletes, I just don't think they're different enough to keep a player from staying eligible. I also don't think it would prevent a player from coming to that school. After all, the top players are recruited by all of the schools in the circle that includes UNC.

 

[stankeylegjones]

No, you obviously didn’t see what I did there. Which stands to reason.
You’re oblivious. And I haven’t the inclination to help you understand.

So, I'm wrong but you refuse to tell me why I'm wrong. Great stance.

For your future reference, you need the implication sign to go the opposite way for what you said to be valid, hence it needs to be an if and only if (iff) statement.

 

[stankeylegjones]

You can think anything you want. You can compare a soup can to HD if you think it's helpful or titillating. Don't project that onto other people, who think differently and are not obsessed with making everything about HD.

Scheyer has been at Duke for 3 years, during which time he has arguably underperformed his talent twice and this year he basically can't overperform it. Nothing about his coaching tenure to date suggests an ability to do more than collect top recruits. In today's world, "recruiting" just isn't part of the job the way it used to be.

We'll have to agree to disagree on your first part. On your second part, you're right I think. In this version of CBB it takes having a GM and scouting service/team, it's been that way for several years now. That's why almost all of the coaches at the top programs have had such structures and people in place for a while now.

 

[Centerpiece]

Meanwhile… Tennessee laid an egg in the first half. It will be difficult to climb their way out of that double digit hole against an elite defense like Houston’s. The lid was on that basket. Perhaps the lid remains on that basket for Houston in the 2nd half and Tenn can claw their way back into the game.

 

[DiehardHeelFan]

Among them is a generational talent, the most talented college player since Durant.

 

[Icky Mettle]

I think the bottom line is the duke basketball brand is currently a lot more attractive than UNC’s.

ESPN is to Duke what FOX News is to the right wing agenda.

 

[superrific]

We'll have to agree to disagree on your first part.

Agree to disagree about what? You are trying to tell me the meaning of my own post. It's not as if it was a close call as to the meaning. I've explained my point, and what I was intending. There's nothing for you to disagree about. If you persist in trying to tell me what I'm thinking, I'm just going to stop talking to you. This has been a point of contention before.

As far as Centerpiece -- pretty sure his point was to do to you what you did to me. He took a statement of yours, inserted an assumption about something you didn't remotely say, and then pass it off as an interpretation of your words. You didn't much like it, as you shouldn't. I think it was intended as an object lesson, so maybe you could take it that way.

 

[superrific]

That's my view having watched him. It also seems to be the view of many NBA scouts, who talk about Flagg as the best high school player since Lebron and the best pro prospect since Durant. If not for Wemby, I think NBA folks would be talking about Flagg as the next face of the league. I don't know about that, but I was saying earlier this year that Flagg's floor is Aaron Gordon, who is a borderline all-star. That's quite a floor. And since Flagg has improved his jumper since then, and looks to have three point chops, he's already exceeded that floor, I think.

 

[DiehardHeelFan]

That's my view having watched him. It also seems to be the view of many NBA scouts, who talk about Flagg as the best high school player since Lebron and the best pro prospect since Durant. If not for Wemby, I think NBA folks would be talking about Flagg as the next face of the league. I don't know about that, but I was saying earlier this year that Flagg's floor is Aaron Gordon, who is a borderline all-star. That's quite a floor. And since Flagg has improved his jumper since then, and looks to have three point chops, he's already exceeded that floor, I think.

Okay

 

[superrific]

Okay

The problem we face is that the Duke douche is a dying species. There's just not enough consistency in the program for anyone to acquire those douche traits.
I mean, Flagg isn't a douche. He's a player. I never could hate on Zion -- guy genuinely enjoyed playing the game, he's positive, he's having fun and he wasn't dirty at all.

I'm not saying that it's over, but it's becoming harder to reflexively dislike their players for any reason other than going to Duke. And seeing as how they don't seem to want to stay very long, that's not really a strike against them either.

 

[aGDevil2k]

Rasheed Sulaimon and PJ Hairston say hi.

The idea that student athletes at every school are "the same" seems absurd given our ample experience with teams who cheat. if Zion got $100K to attend Duke, then he wasn't the same, was he? If he never had to go to class, he wasn't the same.

My brother was at Duke same time as Chris Duhon. He said that Duhon was a known drunk who was aggressive at parties and other social events. Saw Duhon clock one of his friends for no real reason.

Contrast that to a slightly different experience I had, when I was staying with a friend in a Carrboro apartment for a few days. One night the people next door were throwing a party and it was loud. I opened the front door to ask them to keep it down, and VC and 'Tawn and I think Oku were standing right there. I said, "hey, I'm trying to study. Can you keep it down a bit." Guess what? They went inside the other apartment and kept it down for a few minutes, before everyone left.

I guess a single anecdote of people not being dickheads doesn't prove much, but I still believe that Dean and Gut and then Roy required a certain level of decorum and responsibility from their players that K simply did not -- at least as long as the players are good.

Correct that's a single anecdote so it's not worth much. An encounter with a Duke player everyone knew drank too much? You could reference Battier and Boozer who would always be seen with books in hand and studying.

YOU HAD AN ENTIRE MADE UP CLASS SCANDAL. Good Lord. Every school has demons

And then where's your proof that Duke made not going to class an "official policy??" Did many of the one and done players bail on class yes from what I know. But you made a bold claim I've never seen in writing.

And I'm one who hated how K embraced the one and done types

 

[BlooVooDoo]

Is there a voice in sports announcing worse than Steve Lappas? I think not.

 

[Centerpiece]

Agree to disagree about what? You are trying to tell me the meaning of my own post. It's not as if it was a close call as to the meaning. I've explained my point, and what I was intending. There's nothing for you to disagree about. If you persist in trying to tell me what I'm thinking, I'm just going to stop talking to you. This has been a point of contention before.

As far as Centerpiece -- pretty sure his point was to do to you what you did to me. He took a statement of yours, inserted an assumption about something you didn't remotely say, and then pass it off as an interpretation of your words. You didn't much like it, as you shouldn't. I think it was intended as an object lesson, so maybe you could take it that way.

Bingo

 

[superrific]

Correct that's a single anecdote so it's not worth much

YOU HAD AN ENTIRE MADE UP CLASS SCANDAL. Good Lord.

And then where's your proof that Duke made not going to class an "official policy??" Did many of the one and done players bail on class yes from what I know. But you made a bold claim I've never seen in writing.

And I'm one who hated how K embraced the one and done types

1. It was a mostly made-up scandal. The actual transgressions -- once you remove some false allegations from narcisssistic weirdos -- were small fries; it was a football program thing; and the basketball coaches didn't know about it.

2. I have no proof of that policy. I have no evidence of that policy, other than what I have read on message boards in various places. I have read that on quite a few message boards, but message boards are not a reliable source of information even in the aggregate (esp. since they are extremely prone to information cascades. I will not assert it against any pushback, because I don't know.

I took this thread to be casual talk. I'd go one step further than "not worth much" and say its non-zero worth would feature many 0s after the decimal point.

 

[Centerpiece]

Stankey done derailed the thread, which is supposed to be about the men’s NCAAT, which is happening in real time. Now. There are at least 2 other threads on which the current debate can go to.

Meanwhile, another 1 seed is about to punch their ticket unless Barnes has a miracle up his sleeve. Which he doesn’t. Tenn goes as Lanier goes, and he is off by a mile thus far today.

 

[superrific]

Stankey done derailed the thread, which is supposed to be about the men’s NCAAT, which is happening in real time. Now. There are at least 2 other threads on which the current debate can go to.

Meanwhile, another 1 seed is about to punch their ticket unless Barnes has a miracle up his sleeve. Which he doesn’t. Tenn goes as Lanier goes, and he is off by a mile thus far today.

I think part of the problem is that the tournament has been so boring. Easy to derail when there's so little to say.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

Correct that's a single anecdote so it's not worth much. An encounter with a Duke player everyone knew drank too much? You could reference Battier and Boozer who would always be seen with books in hand and studying.

YOU HAD AN ENTIRE MADE UP CLASS SCANDAL. Good Lord. Every school has demons

And then where's your proof that Duke made not going to class an "official policy??" Did many of the one and done players bail on class yes from what I know. But you made a bold claim I've never seen in writing.

And I'm one who hated how K embraced the one and done types

The NY Post reported on a now-show class scandal involving Duke basketball in the 1990s. Essentially the exact same thing UNC was investigated for doing.

 

[stankeylegjones]

Agree to disagree about what? You are trying to tell me the meaning of my own post. It's not as if it was a close call as to the meaning. I've explained my point, and what I was intending. There's nothing for you to disagree about. If you persist in trying to tell me what I'm thinking, I'm just going to stop talking to you. This has been a point of contention before.

As far as Centerpiece -- pretty sure his point was to do to you what you did to me. He took a statement of yours, inserted an assumption about something you didn't remotely say, and then pass it off as an interpretation of your words. You didn't much like it, as you shouldn't. I think it was intended as an object lesson, so maybe you could take it that way.

Super, you seem to be combative today. I'm not trying to be a prick to you. If I'm coming across that way, I apologize.

I am disagreeing with your statement that Scheyer has underperformed with his talent. That is the part I am talking about that we will have to agree to disagree.

The post I responded to implied that Scheyer and Cal (and some other coaches) only care about winning - "These are the things that schools can do to attract talent when all they care about it winning." So, it was, you said X only cares about winning, and I said it's not true that X only cares about winning. Centerpiece's attempt would've been valid if I said HD only cares about winning, hence, my iff comment.

 

[duluoz]

Is there a voice in sports announcing worse than Steve Lappas? I think not.

I don’t understand how this crew got such big games.