Nobel Peace Prize (Awarded to Maria Corina Machado)

ZenMode said:
You don't think the Israel-Gaza cease fire is an obvious case?
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There have been several "cease fires " over the past 9 months that were short lived due to violations of the cease fire by both Israel and Hamas so no, this latest ceasefire does not constitute an "obvious" case.

If the "peace agreement " is on track next year, then Trump should get some consideration but not until he stops bombing fishing boats and is no longer using his paramilitary to occupy our country's cities and abuse our country's people.
 
heelinhell said:
I take your point that Calla, ram, pandemic blue, heelyeah are unabashed Trump MAGAs who fully support an autocratic America, and I respect the fact that they make no apology for it.

Zen is an enigma in that he wants it both ways. He supports and defends what Trump does, but for some reason wants us to believe he is not a Trump MAGA.

I have never put any poster on ignore and as long as no poster puts out vile Stormfront sorts of stuff, then I will continue my policy.
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“I have never put any poster on ignore and as long as no poster puts out vile Stormfront sorts of stuff, then I will continue my policy.”

Respect. I just don’t understand people being weak minded or close minded to that point. Pretty bad when you are so emotionally and intellectually fragile that your ability to discuss politics is limited to those in your echo chamber and when challenged your response is to in essence cover your ears and yell blah blah blah. Kind of gives credibility to the notion that the left is only tolerant when you agree with them. Also don’t remember any conservative saying they are putting anyone on ignore but I could be wrong on that.
 
The Nobel Peace Prize is a joke anyway. Its main function these days is to call attention to people doing worthy, thankless work who really could use more support. Like someone campaigning for democracy in Venezuela.

No more peace prizes to American presidents or executive branch officials. Obama didn't deserve his. Kissenger's was pathetic. Al Gore didn't need a prize either, although if i recall, the prize actually went to the UN committee or something of the sort and Gore was just the face of the prize, so to speak.

No more peace prizes related to the Middle East. In my lifetime, there have been two different peace prize awards related to a conflict that is currently in a genocide phase. Please no more. These people did not bring peace.
 
05C40 said:
I blame the stroke. I think fairly dramatic personality changes occasionally happen with a stroke. But I am still waiting on the first uber-MAGA GOP politician to have a stoke and then declare his membership in the Green Party.
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I think it's clearly possible the stroke played a role but more likely that he just has "Congress brain" - he reached a position of power and now his words and actions are guided more by a reflexive instinct to protect his position (which he thinks he can do by being some sort of "radical centrist") than by whatever principles he may have originally had.
 
heelinhell said:
If the "peace agreement " is on track next year, then Trump should get some consideration but not until he stops bombing fishing boats and is no longer using his paramilitary to occupy our country's cities and abuse our country's people.
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What has happened under his watch is an atrocity. It is not laudatory, much less laureate-worthy, to sit back and watch an ally slaughter people and cause a famine, and only after allied states start to recognize a state of Palestine, which angers your fascist ally -- only then do you make any effort at brokering a "ceasefire."

If, as we all know will happen, Trumpworld's fingerprints are all over the "redevelopment" plans, it will have been willing participation and benefit from ethnic cleansing, so yeah, no thanks.
 
rodoheel said:
I think it's clearly possible the stroke played a role but more likely that he just has "Congress brain" - he reached a position of power and now his words and actions are guided more by a reflexive instinct to protect his position (which he thinks he can do by being some sort of "radical centrist") than by whatever principles he may have originally had.
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Or it's also possible we've been duped. A second time.

Look: if a person wants to dress in a hoodie while walking the halls of Congress, or some pink tutu with bubble gum stuck all around and heart-shaped glasses -- that's fine, but that doesn't mean they are going to be liberal. I wasn't ever really aboard the Sinema train, but I was on the Fetterman train and it is so, so disappointing.

It's not the stroke. He has staff who knows where he stands on issues. His wife knows. Everyone in his orbit can keep him tethered if his stroke changed his personality. I just think the real Fetterman never remotely lived up to the idea of John Fetterman.
 
Callatoroy said:
I know you all hate trump and can’t stand the thought that he is considered, and I don’t know enough about others who may be more deserving, but he is / was the only person on the planet (of all those in a position to drive it) capable of doing it. Biden or Kamala? No, and had their chances. You can still hate him and recognize that without him this doesn’t happen. You don’t get any hate demerits for that.
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Nothing is really accomplished *yet*, and I don't necessarily agree that Trump is the "only guy capable of doing it" (nor did Kamala, in the largely ceremonial VP position, actually have a "chance" to do much of anything), nor does he get anywhere near sole credit for what's happening now (the international community has been putting justified pressure on Israel too), but he deserves at least some credit for finally wising up that the way to help get this done was to sit on Bibi, hard, and the fact that he has been so staunchly pro-Israel in the past gave him some credibility to do that.

Obviously it would have been ridiculous to give Trump the *current* Nobel peace prize given that the ceasefire is just now happening and still very fragile. Personally, if we're sitting here next year with the current cease-fire having been sustained and followed up with a more concrete peace deal that doesn't involve paving Gaza over to build a Trump casino and dumping the current residents into the desert somewhere (and also assuming Trump hasn't, you know, turned his military's guns on his own citizens) I'm fine with them giving Trump the next Nobel peace prize. Though candidly mostly so he will just shut the fuck up about it. At this point I am happy to give Trump temporary wins on symbolic stuff that soothes his ego if it will distract his focus away from the more concerning work of pushing the US towards an authoritarian government.
 
superrific said:
Or it's also possible we've been duped. A second time.

Look: if a person wants to dress in a hoodie while walking the halls of Congress, or some pink tutu with bubble gum stuck all around and heart-shaped glasses -- that's fine, but that doesn't mean they are going to be liberal. I wasn't ever really aboard the Sinema train, but I was on the Fetterman train and it is so, so disappointing.

It's not the stroke. He has staff who knows where he stands on issues. His wife knows. Everyone in his orbit can keep him tethered if his stroke changed his personality. I just think the real Fetterman never remotely lived up to the idea of John Fetterman.
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Sure, it's a very real possibility.
 
A few questions about that famous "6AM phone call."

1. What if you miss the call? Do they call back, or leave a message? Does the iphone know how Norwegians pronounce things, or will the transcription be a mess?

2. My phone flags pretty much all numbers purporting to be international as spam. Six in the morning, you wake up groggy, look at your phone. "These fucking spammers, waking me up like this. This one is coming from country code 47. What the hell is that?"
 
rodoheel said:
I'm fine with them giving Trump the next Nobel peace prize.
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I'm not and I suspect 90% of the world would agree, if not more.

He didn't even do anything. This framework has always been there, for years. The only thing that has happened is that Israel thinks it has won, and is now noticing it has become a pariah state with little to no influence in Europe.
 
rodoheel said:
Nothing is really accomplished *yet*, and I don't necessarily agree that Trump is the "only guy capable of doing it" (nor did Kamala, in the largely ceremonial VP position, actually have a "chance" to do much of anything), nor does he get anywhere near sole credit for what's happening now (the international community has been putting justified pressure on Israel too), but he deserves at least some credit for finally wising up that the way to help get this done was to sit on Bibi, hard, and the fact that he has been so staunchly pro-Israel in the past gave him some credibility to do that.

Obviously it would have been ridiculous to give Trump the *current* Nobel peace prize given that the ceasefire is just now happening and still very fragile. Personally, if we're sitting here next year with the current cease-fire having been sustained and followed up with a more concrete peace deal that doesn't involve paving Gaza over to build a Trump casino and dumping the current residents into the desert somewhere (and also assuming Trump hasn't, you know, turned his military's guns on his own citizens) I'm fine with them giving Trump the next Nobel peace prize. Though candidly mostly so he will just shut the fuck up about it. At this point I am happy to give Trump temporary wins on symbolic stuff that soothes his ego if it will distract his focus away from the more concerning work of pushing the US towards an authoritarian government.
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Fair. My point was that trump wasn’t obviously the only important player, and none of it happens without the cooperation of other ME leaders (shoutout to Qatar). But trump is the driving force and has the influence that no one else as their country’s leader has to make this happen. You can certainly differ as to why we think that influence exists (from bad things to good things) but it is there and trump used it for good in this circumstance.
 
superrific said:
I'm not and I suspect 90% of the world would agree, if not more.

He didn't even do anything. This framework has always been there, for years. The only thing that has happened is that Israel thinks it has won, and is now noticing it has become a pariah state with little to no influence in Europe.
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First of all, I thought I was pretty clear in my post that nothing worth celebrating has happened *yet^ and that there is plenty that could happen before next year that would make the award obviously ridiculous. So we're not really fighting about anything substantive here.

Second of all, to quote your previous post: "The Nobel Peace Prize is a joke anyway." I don't know that I would call it a joke but it is largely ceremonial. The history of the award reveals entirely worthy honorees mixed in with silly honorees and downright embarrassing honorees. The sole reason Trump wants it is because Obama got it, and you already noted that Obama probably shouldn't have gotten it (I tend to agree). So who really gives a shit? If the world actually is a more peaceful place by next year (big if) and if Trump has backed off the crazy fascist shit over here (even bigger if) then give it to him and maybe he can just die a happy man. We can retroactively take it back in a few years when the Epstein stuff finally becomes fully public.
 
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