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A mass murder occurred Friday by someone exactly like you.
#NoKingsDay
- Thread starter donbosco
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Mulberry Heel
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Rather ironic for a Trumper to be predicting that immigrants will murder someone when one of their own literally just murdered two people and came damn close to killing two more, and all because he's convinced himself that their political views are so evil they had to die. IMO, the real threat to this country right now isn't coming from immigrants, it's coming from radicalized, xenophobic, white nationalist fundamentalist Christians who can't handle that the world around them is changing in ways they don't like.
ZenMode
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I suspect many people in high positions of power want their people to sit up and listen when they talk.
That's kinda how the employee/boss relationship tends to work.
ZenMode
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A true king/dictator likely puts significant effort into stopping the #nokings protests which are reported as the biggest in US history.
As it actually went down, Trump sat quietly for the parade, spoke for about 7 minutes, fairly humbly and presidential-ly, and left.
There's no doubt that he expects those close to him to be loyal and not question him.
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donbosco
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I suspect that his connection to reality is tenuous and very much altered. That makes him no less destructive nor dangerous.
Exactly?
superrific
Master of the ZZLverse
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Armed conflict is more successful at removing autocratic regimes. The problem is that the conflict produces a new boss not so much unlike the old boss. I'm assuming this is what you are referring to, and it's a good point.
On the other hand -- and this is something I think about, as someone who admired Gandhi possibly more than any other human who lived -- it's unclear whether peaceful protest can still be effective. When was the last time an autocratic regime was toppled by protests? Egypt? And then the Muslim Brotherhood filled the void, until the military staged a coup. The country is more or less a soft dictatorship at the moment.
What changed? First, I think the autocrats learned how to boil the frog. They preserve the trappings of democracy while slowing eating away at it -- which has the function of blunting opposition. For instance, one wonders how effective the civil rights movement would have been if white southerners could have toned it down a bit. No colored water fountains or black people can't walk on the street or standing in front of the university entrance. I mean, it would still be an unjust society but people aren't going to protest as much if they see their oppression in abstract terms. There's a reason we tell the Rosa Parks story the way we do. Well, several reasons -- but one of them, surely, is that Rosa Parks comes across more sympathetically if she was minding her own business when forced to sit in the back of the bus. It wasn't an abstract harm. They humiliated her. They gave her no choice but to protest, so says the popular narrative.
Second, the folks in charge have to be willing to be shamed. This is the point of truth behind the idea that European colonizers were something less than complete barbarians. Well, the British and French at least. They were barbarians but also invested in the idea of human rights and thus they could be shamed into liberation. The famous scene in the film Gandhi where the Indians line up to get beaten by the soldiers when trying to enter the salt facility -- it's stylized for the screen but is more or less based on the Dharasana Salt Works incident. And what happened is that the British soldiers became uncomfortable and then unwilling to keep beating the shit out of innocent people.
Is that even possible any more? Right-wingers think propaganda is better than apology or reconsideration. Meanwhile, they have gotten better at de-empathizing the regime's goons. I'm not sure exactly what techniques they use (probably a combo of training, fear, and selection), but anyway: do we really think that North Korean soldiers would have any qualms about beating the crap out of 500 people in seriatim? Russian soldiers?
None of this is to say that armed conflict is better, or has become a more attractive option, or is more justified. It's simply to wonder if the days when huge marches had any effect are done.
UNCBAdookJD
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Is that why his approval is cratering? He’s negative in every major issue.
evrheel
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Trump tanked the bi-partisan border bill because Biden was deporting more individuals than Trump did and Trump didn't like that
Whatever is good for Trump is good for America
As an aside if all you have is name calling, don't bother
tonman
Exceptional Member
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Eh no. The President is not our boss. WE are his boss.
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That one thing isn't the only variable in considering Trump fascist.
Also, not all of those being deported have criminal records or criminal charges.
We already have mass murder regularly thanks to the rights live of guns and all of the violent right wing groups.
No one's supporting criminals or murder or spinning anything. The numbers just don't support the Trump assertion that they're are millions of criminals here undocumented.
If an undocumented person commits a crime they are already dribbling to deportation once convicted, you will find absolution no one wanting that changed.
What e want is to follow our laws in regards to immigration, don't pick up a guy on his way to his scheduled hearing, or deport without ensuring they didn't pick up the wrong person and the person has due process.
Any the maga cult focuses on outliers equally, the percentage of undocumented immigrants that are criminals is an outlet, not the majority of the standard.
lawtig02
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They have no way of knowing that.
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The 3.5% rule...
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‘Project Runway’ Contestant Arthur Folasa Ah Loo Shot & Killed At No Kings Utah Protest; Police Say He Was “Innocent Bystander”
The man Utah police describe as an innocent bystander slain after gunfire broke out has been identified as Arthur Folasa Ah Loo.
deadline.com
The man Utah police describe as an innocent bystander slain after gunfire broke out at a No Kings rally Saturday in Salt Lake City has been identified as Arthur Folasa Ah Loo, a contestant on Project Runway in 2019.
The shooter was identified by police as a “peacekeeper” who began firing when an attendee wearing a black mask at the rally pointed an AR-15-style rifle at the crowd. “Peacekeepers” apparently were recruited by rally organizers, though a spokesperson for the organizers has said that the “safety teams” were asked not to bring guns.
The man who allegedly pointed the AR-15-style rifle at the crowd has been identified as 24-year-old Arturo Gamboa, who was dressed in all black clothing and wearing a black mask.
The incident began shortly before 8 p.m. when Gamboa allegedly pulled out an AR-15-style rifle from a backpack and “begin manipulating it.” Two men described by police as “peacekeepers” saw Gamboa “move away from the crowd and move into a secluded area behind a wall – behavior they found suspicious.”
When the two men confronted Gamboa with their handguns drawn, Gamboa apparently raised his rifle into a firing position and ran toward the crowd, according to Salt Lake police.
“In response, one of the peacekeepers fired three rounds,” police said in a statement. One round struck Gamboa and another struck and killed Ah Loo. Gamboa was found “crouching among a group of people with a gunshot wound.”
Political scientist Erica Chenoweth disagrees with you.
[By the way Super, since you prefer to read rather than watch videos, here is a tip for you, courtesy of Inside Carolina tip of the day: 1) Click "more" on the description about the show (just underneath the video). 2) Scroll down past the timestamp summary and just underneath the chapters, you'll see "Transcript." 3) Click on "show transcript" and voila - it will show up on the right hand side next to the video.]
superrific
Master of the ZZLverse
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I appreciate that. It's a bit hard to read the transcript in that format so I didn't read it all. Erica Chenowith surely knows more about this than me. On the other hand, I see that she's citing Solidarity in Poland and the South African movement against apartheid.
My thought is that non-violent protests have become less effective over the past 15 to 20 years, so those examples don't really cut against my thesis. They don't help it either.
Perhaps I'm just caught up in cynicism and frustration. It just seems to me that protest movements are ultimately about speaking truth to power, and it only matters to the extent that truth matters. If truth doesn't matter, then I don't see any real way in the US to affect change in this way. Maybe I underestimate the power of general strikes. On the other hand, have we even had a general strike in my lifetime?
Centerpiece
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"Perhaps I'm just caught up in cynicism and frustration"
Yup. And understandable. It's a long arc. but it does bend in the correct direction.