#NoKingsDay

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Callatoroy said:
Nope. Your msnbc rhetoric is pretty pathetic. You focus on the outliers because like sheep you buy what madcow and Scarface tell you to. Thousands of criminals here illegally at the invitation of president vegetable are being deported and that is a great thing for this country. Only leftwing nut jobs oppose that. Only in your fucked up head would that be considered fascist. It won’t be long before a mass murder plays out in some fashion in this country at the hands of a terrorist who came illegally under Joe and your side will try to spin it like the cowards you are.
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That one thing isn't the only variable in considering Trump fascist.

Also, not all of those being deported have criminal records or criminal charges.

We already have mass murder regularly thanks to the rights live of guns and all of the violent right wing groups.

No one's supporting criminals or murder or spinning anything. The numbers just don't support the Trump assertion that they're are millions of criminals here undocumented.

If an undocumented person commits a crime they are already dribbling to deportation once convicted, you will find absolution no one wanting that changed.

What e want is to follow our laws in regards to immigration, don't pick up a guy on his way to his scheduled hearing, or deport without ensuring they didn't pick up the wrong person and the person has due process.

Any the maga cult focuses on outliers equally, the percentage of undocumented immigrants that are criminals is an outlet, not the majority of the standard.
 
deadline.com

‘Project Runway’ Contestant Arthur Folasa Ah Loo Shot & Killed At No Kings Utah Protest; Police Say He Was “Innocent Bystander”

The man Utah police describe as an innocent bystander slain after gunfire broke out has been identified as Arthur Folasa Ah Loo.
deadline.com deadline.com

The man Utah police describe as an innocent bystander slain after gunfire broke out at a No Kings rally Saturday in Salt Lake City has been identified as Arthur Folasa Ah Loo, a contestant on Project Runway in 2019.

The shooter was identified by police as a “peacekeeper” who began firing when an attendee wearing a black mask at the rally pointed an AR-15-style rifle at the crowd. “Peacekeepers” apparently were recruited by rally organizers, though a spokesperson for the organizers has said that the “safety teams” were asked not to bring guns.

The man who allegedly pointed the AR-15-style rifle at the crowd has been identified as 24-year-old Arturo Gamboa, who was dressed in all black clothing and wearing a black mask.


The incident began shortly before 8 p.m. when Gamboa allegedly pulled out an AR-15-style rifle from a backpack and “begin manipulating it.” Two men described by police as “peacekeepers” saw Gamboa “move away from the crowd and move into a secluded area behind a wall – behavior they found suspicious.”

When the two men confronted Gamboa with their handguns drawn, Gamboa apparently raised his rifle into a firing position and ran toward the crowd, according to Salt Lake police.

“In response, one of the peacekeepers fired three rounds,” police said in a statement. One round struck Gamboa and another struck and killed Ah Loo. Gamboa was found “crouching among a group of people with a gunshot wound.”
 
superrific said:
Armed conflict is more successful at removing autocratic regimes.
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Political scientist Erica Chenoweth disagrees with you.

[By the way Super, since you prefer to read rather than watch videos, here is a tip for you, courtesy of Inside Carolina tip of the day: 1) Click "more" on the description about the show (just underneath the video). 2) Scroll down past the timestamp summary and just underneath the chapters, you'll see "Transcript." 3) Click on "show transcript" and voila - it will show up on the right hand side next to the video.]

 
Calheel said:
Political scientist Erica Chenoweth disagrees with you.

[By the way Super, since you prefer to read rather than watch videos, here is a tip for you, courtesy of Inside Carolina tip of the day: 1) Click "more" on the description about the show (just underneath the video). 2) Scroll down past the timestamp summary and just underneath the chapters, you'll see "Transcript." 3) Click on "show transcript" and voila - it will show up on the right hand side next to the video.]

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I appreciate that. It's a bit hard to read the transcript in that format so I didn't read it all. Erica Chenowith surely knows more about this than me. On the other hand, I see that she's citing Solidarity in Poland and the South African movement against apartheid.

My thought is that non-violent protests have become less effective over the past 15 to 20 years, so those examples don't really cut against my thesis. They don't help it either.

Perhaps I'm just caught up in cynicism and frustration. It just seems to me that protest movements are ultimately about speaking truth to power, and it only matters to the extent that truth matters. If truth doesn't matter, then I don't see any real way in the US to affect change in this way. Maybe I underestimate the power of general strikes. On the other hand, have we even had a general strike in my lifetime?
 
superrific said:
I appreciate that. It's a bit hard to read the transcript in that format so I didn't read it all. Erica Chenowith surely knows more about this than me. On the other hand, I see that she's citing Solidarity in Poland and the South African movement against apartheid.

My thought is that non-violent protests have become less effective over the past 15 to 20 years, so those examples don't really cut against my thesis. They don't help it either.

Perhaps I'm just caught up in cynicism and frustration. It just seems to me that protest movements are ultimately about speaking truth to power, and it only matters to the extent that truth matters. If truth doesn't matter, then I don't see any real way in the US to affect change in this way. Maybe I underestimate the power of general strikes. On the other hand, have we even had a general strike in my lifetime?
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"Perhaps I'm just caught up in cynicism and frustration"
Yup. And understandable. It's a long arc. but it does bend in the correct direction.
 
superrific said:
I appreciate that. It's a bit hard to read the transcript in that format so I didn't read it all. Erica Chenowith surely knows more about this than me. On the other hand, I see that she's citing Solidarity in Poland and the South African movement against apartheid.

My thought is that non-violent protests have become less effective over the past 15 to 20 years, so those examples don't really cut against my thesis. They don't help it either.

Perhaps I'm just caught up in cynicism and frustration. It just seems to me that protest movements are ultimately about speaking truth to power, and it only matters to the extent that truth matters. If truth doesn't matter, then I don't see any real way in the US to affect change in this way. Maybe I underestimate the power of general strikes. On the other hand, have we even had a general strike in my lifetime?
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She studied the past 100 years of protest movements, so it certainly is inclusive of old data. But she also cites Serbia, Philippines, etc. Here is a link to her book:

 
UNCatTech said:
That one thing isn't the only variable in considering Trump fascist.

Also, not all of those being deported have criminal records or criminal charges.

We already have mass murder regularly thanks to the rights live of guns and all of the violent right wing groups.

No one's supporting criminals or murder or spinning anything. The numbers just don't support the Trump assertion that they're are millions of criminals here undocumented.

If an undocumented person commits a crime they are already dribbling to deportation once convicted, you will find absolution no one wanting that changed.

What e want is to follow our laws in regards to immigration, don't pick up a guy on his way to his scheduled hearing, or deport without ensuring they didn't pick up the wrong person and the person has due process.

Any the maga cult focuses on outliers equally, the percentage of undocumented immigrants that are criminals is an outlet, not the majority of the standard.
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- True, you guys scream fascist over everything, but you would be cheering it if a D potus did the same things

- Correct, not all do. But for a few outliers, the vast majority entered illegally and should be deported

- I do not believe there to be millions of criminals here, though if there are 20 million here illegally, it could easily be 25%. Your side is supporting criminals. See Abrego Garcia. He has become the new poster child for the democrats

- There are hundreds if not thousands of cases where illegal immigrants commit crimes and sanctuary cities hide them from ICE. Hell, a dim judge helped on escape in the middle of a trial. So that assertion is incorrect. You might not feel that way but it is what your party stands for.

- You don't want to follow the laws because you refused to secure the border allowing millions upon millions to come in illegally. Not enforcing the laws is the same as not following the laws. biden and harris intentionally created this mess and now the chickens have come home to roost. I'm all for changing the laws if needed but allowing people who haven't been vetted to come in and stay for years waiting on a hearing and then many don't show up for that hearing is madness. Do you think Mexico's immigration laws are draconian? Canada? Japan?

I never said nor believe the majority of illegal immigrants are criminals. But many are and we should and must do whatever it takes to get them out.
 
Callatoroy said:
- True, you guys scream fascist over everything, but you would be cheering it if a D potus did the same things

- Correct, not all do. But for a few outliers, the vast majority entered illegally and should be deported

- I do not believe there to be millions of criminals here, though if there are 20 million here illegally, it could easily be 25%. Your side is supporting criminals. See Abrego Garcia. He has become the new poster child for the democrats

- There are hundreds if not thousands of cases where illegal immigrants commit crimes and sanctuary cities hide them from ICE. Hell, a dim judge helped on escape in the middle of a trial. So that assertion is incorrect. You might not feel that way but it is what your party stands for.

- You don't want to follow the laws because you refused to secure the border allowing millions upon millions to come in illegally. Not enforcing the laws is the same as not following the laws. biden and harris intentionally created this mess and now the chickens have come home to roost. I'm all for changing the laws if needed but allowing people who haven't been vetted to come in and stay for years waiting on a hearing and then many don't show up for that hearing is madness. Do you think Mexico's immigration laws are draconian? Canada? Japan?

I never said nor believe the majority of illegal immigrants are criminals. But many are and we should and must do whatever it takes to get them out.
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The CATO institute is a libertarian think tank, and here is what they found


1750123104511.png

I don't approve of illegal immigration, but this notion that they engage in more criminal behavior, when compared with our own citizens, is horseshit.

Crossing the border without authorization and residing in USA, by the way, is a misdemeanor, not a felony. Our POTUS is more of a felon (convicted in fact) than most 'illegal' immigrants.
 
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Callatoroy said:
- True, you guys scream fascist over everything, but you would be cheering it if a D potus did the same things

- Correct, not all do. But for a few outliers, the vast majority entered illegally and should be deported

- I do not believe there to be millions of criminals here, though if there are 20 million here illegally, it could easily be 25%. Your side is supporting criminals. See Abrego Garcia. He has become the new poster child for the democrats

- There are hundreds if not thousands of cases where illegal immigrants commit crimes and sanctuary cities hide them from ICE. Hell, a dim judge helped on escape in the middle of a trial. So that assertion is incorrect. You might not feel that way but it is what your party stands for.

- You don't want to follow the laws because you refused to secure the border allowing millions upon millions to come in illegally. Not enforcing the laws is the same as not following the laws. biden and harris intentionally created this mess and now the chickens have come home to roost. I'm all for changing the laws if needed but allowing people who haven't been vetted to come in and stay for years waiting on a hearing and then many don't show up for that hearing is madness. Do you think Mexico's immigration laws are draconian? Canada? Japan?

I never said nor believe the majority of illegal immigrants are criminals. But many are and we should and must do whatever it takes to get them out.
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You’re wrong from the start. I don’t have a “side.”

There’s no “you guys” here. If a Democratic president were doing exactly what Trump is doing, I’d want him removed just the same as I do trump, as would any rational person. This isn’t about party loyalty, it’s about principle.

My point wasn’t about people entering illegally. I was referring to Trump’s blanket claim that all immigrants are criminals and murderers. That’s what I was calling out.

Trump hasn’t secured the border or introduced any meaningful new laws or policies. What he has done is target people based on skin color and deport them indiscriminately.

You’re also wrong about the law. I want the law followed. Trump isn’t doing that, he acts like a king issuing decrees. The law includes due process. It includes showing up for immigration hearings and following established procedures. Trump has never respected the law, his entire life is proof of that. It’s laughable to suggest he stands for the rule of law.

As for Biden and Harris, they didn’t intentionally create the current situation. If you want to argue they prioritized other issues, fine, that’s a fair point. But to say it was intentional? That’s just a load of trump cult bullshit.

Coming from a MAGA cultist, though, I’m not surprised by this kind of rhetoric. Let’s flip the script: if a Democrat had brought in someone like Elon Musk and his crew to fire people without a plan or oversight, how would the MAGA crowd react? Probably the same way they did when their “god” lost in 2020, by storming the Capitol.

So go ahead, repeat the usual talking points. Tell me how great Trump is and how he won in a landslide, both of which are provably false.

You used to sound like someone reasonable. Now, you’re just a walking Fox News talking point.
 


“… The Riverside Police Department is seeking help from the public two days after the driver of a black SUV rammed through a group of demonstrators in downtown Riverside, running over a young woman who remains in critical but stable condition.

… Carrasco’s friends also told KCAL that she suffered severe skull injuries as well as a cracked rib, punctured lung and broken leg.

“Alexa is loving, outgoing, and full of life,” Hernandez wrote. “She’s the kind of person who always shows up for others, and she was so proud to be out there using her voice. She did not deserve what happened to her.”…”
 
Callatoroy said:
- True, you guys scream fascist over everything, but you would be cheering it if a D potus did the same things

- Correct, not all do. But for a few outliers, the vast majority entered illegally and should be deported

- I do not believe there to be millions of criminals here, though if there are 20 million here illegally, it could easily be 25%. Your side is supporting criminals. See Abrego Garcia. He has become the new poster child for the democrats

- There are hundreds if not thousands of cases where illegal immigrants commit crimes and sanctuary cities hide them from ICE. Hell, a dim judge helped on escape in the middle of a trial. So that assertion is incorrect. You might not feel that way but it is what your party stands for.

- You don't want to follow the laws because you refused to secure the border allowing millions upon millions to come in illegally. Not enforcing the laws is the same as not following the laws. biden and harris intentionally created this mess and now the chickens have come home to roost. I'm all for changing the laws if needed but allowing people who haven't been vetted to come in and stay for years waiting on a hearing and then many don't show up for that hearing is madness. Do you think Mexico's immigration laws are draconian? Canada? Japan?

I never said nor believe the majority of illegal immigrants are criminals. But many are and we should and must do whatever it takes to get them out.
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No the dems would not be cheering for a D pres doing the same. They've forced out congressmen and senators for doing minor stuff. Republicans keep problem folks if it means votes for them.

They've already done studies to show immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than regular citizens.

If an illegal immigrant requests asylum then they have to wait until their case is heard. So called hiding illegals is simply letting them have their day in court as we have seen that ICE doesn't care if they've requested asylum or not.

You keep saying to enforce the law. Yet like with most laws there are always leeway. We would not having a speeding issue in this country if police enforce the speed limit right? Go 1 mph over and you get a fine. Pretty sure lot of us won't be speeding.

If u think Biden and Harris made this all happen, you are blind and naive.

Many do make their hearings. 2008-2018 83% non detained made their court hearing.

Of course if they are criminals but are u treating a jaywalker the same as a murderer? Because right now most folks detained are NOT criminals.
 
Callatoroy said:
- True, you guys scream fascist over everything, but you would be cheering it if a D potus did the same things

- Correct, not all do. But for a few outliers, the vast majority entered illegally and should be deported

- I do not believe there to be millions of criminals here, though if there are 20 million here illegally, it could easily be 25%. Your side is supporting criminals. See Abrego Garcia. He has become the new poster child for the democrats

- There are hundreds if not thousands of cases where illegal immigrants commit crimes and sanctuary cities hide them from ICE. Hell, a dim judge helped on escape in the middle of a trial. So that assertion is incorrect. You might not feel that way but it is what your party stands for.

- You don't want to follow the laws because you refused to secure the border allowing millions upon millions to come in illegally. Not enforcing the laws is the same as not following the laws. biden and harris intentionally created this mess and now the chickens have come home to roost. I'm all for changing the laws if needed but allowing people who haven't been vetted to come in and stay for years waiting on a hearing and then many don't show up for that hearing is madness. Do you think Mexico's immigration laws are draconian? Canada? Japan?

I never said nor believe the majority of illegal immigrants are criminals. But many are and we should and must do whatever it takes to get them out.
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I stopped reading after your first point.

If you truly think Democrats would support a Democratic president doing these things, then you’re dumber than shit.

In truth, you have no actual values. You’re just a dumb dickhead, frankly.
 
MendotoManteo said:
I stopped reading after your first point.

If you truly think Democrats would support a Democratic president doing these things, then you’re dumber than shit.

In truth, you have no actual values. You’re just a dumb dickhead, frankly.
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Says the guy who believed joe's brain wasn't pickled because his media told him it wasn't. That's a special kind of dumb.
 
Last thing I will say on this thread, regarding my original point.

Protest is great. But at end of day, they don’t truly matter unless people willing to use force. Or a general strike.

MLK great guy. But Power wouldn’t have gave a damn unless for people like Malcolm. Black Panthers. Watts riots, etc. Power finally figured it wasn’t worth it anymore. Power only understands force. You can carry a sign and walk around all day, and Power won’t care one bit. (Unless it’s general strike, which is unlikely.)

Here in California, what changed it from open carry to what it is now? It was the Panthers showing up at statehouse here in Sacramento, armed. And Reagan freaked out. So no more open carry here.

Funny, sort of, because conservatives criticize Cali so much for gun rights. But it was their own scared asses that did it.

This all being said, I’m not encouraging insurrection or revolution. Not encouraging political violence. These are all very horrible things. And people need to take them very seriously before they ever act. Because things can always be so much worse.
 
MendotoManteo said:
Last thing I will say on this thread, regarding my original point.

Protest is great. But at end of day, they don’t truly matter unless people willing to use force. Or a general strike.

MLK great guy. But Power wouldn’t have gave a damn unless for people like Malcolm. Black Panthers. Watts riots, etc. Power finally figured it wasn’t worth it anymore. Power only understands force. You can carry a sign and walk around all day, and Power won’t care one bit. (Unless it’s general strike, which is unlikely.)

Here in California, what changed it from open carry to what it is now? It was the Panthers showing up at statehouse here in Sacramento, armed. And Reagan freaked out. So no more open carry here.

Funny, sort of, because conservatives criticize Cali so much for gun rights. But it was their own scared asses that did it.

This all being said, I’m not encouraging insurrection or revolution. Not encouraging political violence. These are all very horrible things. And people need to take them very seriously before they ever act. Because things can always be so much worse.
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Progressives by their nature aren’t willing to use force. Namaste 🙏
 
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