Political Pissing Match Catch-All | Response to NOLA Attack & Vegas Cybertruck explosion

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superrific said:
It has nothing to do with whether I feel bad or not. I'm just smart enough to realize that people don't always speak the truth.

Terrorists always make themselves out to be principled, honorable warriors. They don't usually say, "I am killing these gay people because I hate gay people." Or "I'm robbing this armored truck because I need the money." It's not a noble path forward. And thus, terrorists have all sorts of excuses. The Brinks armed robbery that landed Kathy Boudin in prison for life was supposedly about the ongoing struggle against imperialism. It wasn't. They needed cash.

Similarly, if you read about the Red Army Faction in Germany in the 1970s, you would see that they committed acts of violence in retribution for all sorts of different perceived crimes. In the end, though, they were just violent people. If you think they wouldn't have taken hostages in Sweden if only Holger Meins had not died in prison, I've got a bridge to sell you. [incidentally, the character of Hans Gruber was based on the Baader-Meinhof Red Army Faction, if that tells you anything about the perception in Europe of the RAF's motivations]
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Except there is no evidence that, as you stated, Matteen committed the shooting because he hated gay people. Investigators concluded that he did not target Pulse specifically because it was a gay bar. He chose it at random because it was an easy target.

During his wife's trial in March 2018, her defense revealed in a motion that Mateen had Googled "downtown Orlando nightclubs" and, after passing Disney Springs, traveled between Pulse and the Eve Orlando Nightclub before choosing to target Pulse. Cell phone records indicate that the final selection of the Pulse appears to have been made based on the lack of security – not because it was a gay club. Trial witnesses said the decision to target Pulse was made at the last minute and the defense's motion argued that this "strongly suggests that the attack on Pulse was not a result of a prior plan to attack a gay nightclub."

Once again, the attack was an Islamist terrorist attack carried out by a radicalized Islamist terrorist. These are facts, not opinion, and they are not up for debate.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Except there is no evidence that, as you stated, Matteen committed the shooting because he hated gay people. Investigators concluded that he did not target Pulse specifically because it was a gay bar. He chose it at random because it was an easy target.

During his wife's trial in March 2018, her defense revealed in a motion that Mateen had Googled "downtown Orlando nightclubs" and, after passing Disney Springs, traveled between Pulse and the Eve Orlando Nightclub before choosing to target Pulse. Cell phone records indicate that the final selection of the Pulse appears to have been made based on the lack of security – not because it was a gay club. Trial witnesses said the decision to target Pulse was made at the last minute and the defense's motion argued that this "strongly suggests that the attack on Pulse was not a result of a prior plan to attack a gay nightclub."

Once again, the attack was an Islamist terrorist attack carried out by a radicalized Islamist terrorist. These are facts, not opinion, and they are not up for debate.
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You should probably look up the definition of the word "fact." You use it improperly.

As for your bad faith, in order to get to that paragraph you cited, you had to skip over about 15 paragraphs chock full of evidence that he had major sexuality issues. His wife believed he was gay. His dad, apparently, had called him that. He had a lot of homophobia in his past, and mental instability and drug use.

What they never found was any evidence of Islamist leanings that pre-dated the day of the attack. He apparently used to tell people he was a member of Hezbollah and Hamas (both are enemies of ISIS), so there's that. He said that his actions were triggered by something that happened six weeks prior, but that event had not happened when he started planning the attack more than two months prior. His story about his motivations had varied considerably, and none of his family members suggested that he was a

As for what you've cited from his wife's trial . . . I mean, that was her lawyer's take. He was supposed to create reasonable doubt. I am skeptical that what you have pasted there is accurate, because most of that evidence would be likely inadmissible as hearsay. I mean, maybe they had non-hearsay evidence but they can't testify about what they were told so your strategy of "believe the killer during his killing spree" was not followed there. Likewise, I don't know how they would have introduced cell phone evidence demonstrating that the selection of the Pulse was based on the lack of security. Anything written by him would be inadmissible hearsay, unless it was written on the day of and then we're back to the same problem.
 
superrific said:
You should probably look up the definition of the word "fact." You use it improperly.

As for your bad faith, in order to get to that paragraph you cited, you had to skip over about 15 paragraphs chock full of evidence that he had major sexuality issues. His wife believed he was gay. His dad, apparently, had called him that. He had a lot of homophobia in his past, and mental instability and drug use.

What they never found was any evidence of Islamist leanings that pre-dated the day of the attack. He apparently used to tell people he was a member of Hezbollah and Hamas (both are enemies of ISIS), so there's that. He said that his actions were triggered by something that happened six weeks prior, but that event had not happened when he started planning the attack more than two months prior. His story about his motivations had varied considerably, and none of his family members suggested that he was a

As for what you've cited from his wife's trial . . . I mean, that was her lawyer's take. He was supposed to create reasonable doubt. I am skeptical that what you have pasted there is accurate, because most of that evidence would be likely inadmissible as hearsay. I mean, maybe they had non-hearsay evidence but they can't testify about what they were told so your strategy of "believe the killer during his killing spree" was not followed there. Likewise, I don't know how they would have introduced cell phone evidence demonstrating that the selection of the Pulse was based on the lack of security. Anything written by him would be inadmissible hearsay, unless it was written on the day of and then we're back to the same problem.
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The lengths that you are attempting to go to in order to remove Islam from the equation are massive. Two can play at that game. Dylan Roof was actually an Islamic terrorist as well. I know he claimed to be a white supremacist, but we should just ignore what he said because we can’t really trust the words of murderers.
 
I found the interview on NPR of the father of an 18 year-old son who was killed by the truck-driving murderer interesting.

The family is Islamic; the deceased son was Islamic.

The obviously grieving father said, “What did my son do to get killed?”

“It doesn’t represent Islam. It doesn’t represent ANYTHING.”

His last sentence resonated with me.
 
Ramrouser said:
Biden can’t type anything. He’s been in bed since 4pm.
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4:04 pm. I was assured Biden was in bed.

Hot tip: Your MAGA "bit" isn't working. Your only audience is you, like you're trying to convince yourself that you aren't really scum for voting for a piece of shit lying, grifting, ignorant, convicted felon. If, on the other hand, you know that he is a piece of shit lying, grifting, ignorant, convicted felon, and you voted for that on purpose because you know that you're scum, too, and you're just trolling the board, then, well done.
 
Zoo_View said:
I found the interview on NPR of the father of an 18 year-old son who was killed by the truck-driving murderer interesting.

The family is Islamic; the deceased son was Islamic.

The obviously grieving father said, “What did my son do to get killed?”

“It doesn’t represent Islam. It doesn’t represent ANYTHING.”

His last sentence resonated with me.
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It represents a radicalized, fundamentalist interpretation of Islamic doctrine.

As with any group, there will be people who say "That's not what we're about" when someone in the group embarrasses them.
 
Trumps A
RaiGuy said:


4:04 pm. I was assured Biden was in bed.

Hot tip: Your MAGA "bit" isn't working. Your only audience is you, like you're trying to convince yourself that you aren't really scum for voting for a piece of shit lying, grifting, ignorant, convicted felon. If, on the other hand, you know that he is a piece of shit lying, grifting, ignorant, convicted felon, and you voted for that on purpose because you knowready that you're scum, too, and you're just trolling the board, then, well done.
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t5
You mad!!! Trump is living in your brain. Your side lost so suck it. Get ready to enjoy the Golden Era.
 
What does that even mean? I’m just supposed to just take shit from libs. I believe everything I post. You can just sit back and ENJOY the next 4 years. MAGA.
 
Ramrouser said:
What does that even mean? I’m just supposed to just take shit from libs. I believe everything I post. You can just sit back and ENJOY the next 4 years. MAGA.
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It'll be glorious.

Thankfully, I don't have kids.
 
Plenty of people. See I work in the free market. Real people hire me to represent them in actual cases before real judges for a handsome hourly rate.
 
The Next President. I guess you think -waste 2.5 Billion Kamala - can beat him. Guess she’ll need to talk to podcasters!
 
Ramrouser said:
What does that even mean? I’m just supposed to just take shit from libs. I believe everything I post. You can just sit back and ENJOY the next 4 years. MAGA.
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You're on a liberal board. Maybe start by showing some class. At this point, you don't seem to be capable of participating in actual discussion, which is odd considering your alleged line of work. And if your only goal here is to rile up the libs, you'll deserve everything that's coming to you from your intellectual superiors on this board.
 
A friend of mine who was on the NC Board of Law Examiners has told me enough stories about some of the candidates that actually passed to erase any particular respect for a generic law degree.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
Assuming the guy really did sympathize with ISIS, it’s likely his motivation was more political than religious.
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Maybe. Maybe not.

Jabbar, a Texas-born US citizen and Army veteran who served in Afghanistan, made reference in the videos to his divorce and how he had at first planned to gather his family for a “celebration” with the intention of killing them, two officials who had been briefed on the recordings said.

But Jabbar said in the videos he changed his plans because he wanted news headlines to focus on the “war between the believers and the disbelievers,” Raia said. Jabbar stated he had joined ISIS before this summer, Raia added.

 
His family must be relieved and horrified at the same time.
“Gee, daddy was planning on killing all of us at the same time! How horrifying!”
“Golly gee, we sure are lucky daddy decided to kill all those people with that truck! What a relief!”
 
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