Protection Of Women And Girls In Sports Act

[nycfan]

Dude, have you ever played organized volleyball on any competitive level? I did (albeit in high school) and that volleyball story is such a load of horseshit. The player in question is not the best on her team and statistically is middling in her conference. If you fear her, your teams better reject a bid to the NCAA Tournament to avoid playing any of the national title contending women’s teams because the terrifying transgender player isn’t good enough to make those squads. Their top hitters spikes are at least 50 mph, some considerably higher. The best male college players can hit up to 70 mph but the trans player is an average player in women’s volleyball.

Also, 6-3 is a normal height for hitters on good Div 1 women’s volleyball teams, not some anomaly.

And the one play where the girl got hit in the face is a thing that happens in competitive volleyball, sometimes because you are trying to use your shoulder as an emergency dig of a deep serve or spike and fuck up, sometimes because you are too slow. But it is not like ooooh she was targeted!!!!

I think that you are just saying it is great political optics and I am not sure if you have genuine objections in this case otherwise, but this one is so damned irritating.

I will add that I was all-conference in HS. So I went and tried out for a walk-on spot on UNC’s volleyball team my freshman year (moved on campus weeks early as a result, which was weird TBH). I was a hitter in HS and about the size of college setter. The UNc hitters shocked me how hard they spiked the ball. I was so out of my league I ultimately didn’t return for final tryouts, which I very much regret to this day — I made it far enough to have a chance but then felt overwhelmed by my inadequacy compared to scholarship athletes.

 

[Ramrouser]

I clearly indicated it was great political optics (never claimed any expertise in competitive volleyball). I could have used other examples in other sports but the volleyball case has been in the news.

As for my using "cute blond" it was a joke - poking fun at Fox News which loves to feature cute females to pull at the heartstrings of its audience.

 

[Zoo_View]

Competitive female athletes compete against males all the time.

It might be in pick-up games; but, competitive women look for opportunities to play against men as a means to improve.

 

[finesse]

I clearly indicated it was great political optics (never claimed any expertise in competitive volleyball). I could have used other examples in other sports but the volleyball case has been in the news.

As for my using "cute blond" it was a joke - poking fun at Fox News which loves to feature cute females to pull at the heartstrings of its audience.

You just made the misogyny look so real and believable. Guess that's a point in favor of it being a joke.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

My position (and I think it is a conservative one) is…keep government out of the decision and let the governing body of each league determine.
I think there are instances where allowing transgendered girls to compete with other girls makes sense (or at least isn’t harmful), and instances (depending upon age and sport) where it does not.

I think that definitely makes sense at the higher levels. They seem to be a bit more science-based.

I think the concern is more the politics of the people making the decisions at the college and high school level both for and against. I think those politics sometimes get in the way of what's best for the kids. Of course I don't know how you solve that. I think the politics at the federal level gets in the way of what's best for the kids too.

 

[Callatoroy]

This is definitely one of those vitally important things that should be closely regulated at the federal level rather than entrusting it to states and municipalities, as opposed to much less important things like disaster relief and education policy, for which the federal government should have no role whatsoever because states and municipalities have the right to make their own decisions.

while I agree with your sarcasm about this being a states issue, it has become a national issue in the perception of the dem party and its degree of wokeness. As the article pointed out, people are leaving the dem party, and while it all might not be attributed solely to this issue, this issue is kind of the litmus test on how woke the party is in the eyes of voters. So this is a national issue for Dems with respect to branding.

 

[lawtig02]

while I agree with your sarcasm about this being a states issue, it has become a national issue in the perception of the dem party and its degree of wokeness. As the article pointed out, people are leaving the dem party, and while it all might not be attributed solely to this issue, this issue is kind of the litmus test on how woke the party is in the eyes of voters. So this is a national issue for Dems with respect to branding.

Thanks. So you agree this is an issue on which Pubs are scoring political points, rather than an issue that actually calls for federal involvement. I agree with that. Just wanted to clarify that while you're calling out hypocrisy on the part of Dems (which certainly exists), you're also willing to acknowledge when the Pubs are fucking hypocrites for partisan reasons, which is exemplified here.

 

[Callatoroy]

I agree with CFord’s comment that the left should play down all culture war issues until the anti wokeness push dies down but, 1. I’m not sure it can with AOC being one of the faces of the party and, 2. With all but 2 opposing the bill it looks like stepping back from the cultural wars doesn’t look like the party’s strategy. That’s why I think the senate vote will be so interesting.

 

[Huh?]

If Congress is going to be true to the name of the act, maybe there needs to be an amendment banning the new President and the new Secretary of Defense from attending all sports events.

That's no more performative than the rest of the proposed legislation.

 

[ChileG]

It's part of the Republican's Common Sense Agenda. It's paints Dems in a corner of defending a 6 foot 3 trans volleyball player spiking the ball onto the head of a cute, blond. "We're for YOU, Dems are for they/them." It's a continuation of the Presidential campaign. Granted, it's not the most important issue we're facing but Trump's working 24/7 on those issues as well.

And I think the dems should counter with…keep government out of these decisions and let’s focus on table top issues that affect all Americans. It’s an easy message to give, I think.
And conservatives (supposedly) should be accepting of a “keep government out of our lives where they don’t belong.”

 

[Paine]

I agree with CFord’s comment that the left should play down all culture war issues until the anti wokeness push dies down but, 1. I’m not sure it can with AOC being one of the faces of the party and, 2. With all but 2 opposing the bill it looks like stepping back from the cultural wars doesn’t look like the party’s strategy. That’s why I think the senate vote will be so interesting.

What does AOC being the face of the party (which isn’t even really true) have to do with being woke?

 

[ChileG]

I will add that I was all-conference in HS. So I went and tried out for a walk-on spot on UNC’s volleyball team my freshman year (moved on campus weeks early as a result, which was weird TBH). I was a hitter in HS and about the size of college setter. The UNc hitters shocked me how hard they spiked the ball. I was so out of my league I ultimately didn’t return for final tryouts, which I very much regret to this day — I made it far enough to have a chance but then felt overwhelmed by my inadequacy compared to scholarship athletes.

The coach at the time (I recall that you and I were at UNC the same four years) was my PE instructor (I took volleyball for two semesters for my PE requirement).

 

[uncjhodges]

What does AOC being the face of the party (which isn’t even really true) have to do with being woke?

she’s a non white male, therefore woke

 

[JCTarheel82]

Dude, have you ever played organized volleyball on any competitive level? I did (albeit in high school) and that volleyball story is such a load of horseshit. The player in question is not the best on her team and statistically is middling in her conference. If you fear her, your teams better reject a bid to the NCAA Tournament to avoid playing any of the national title contending women’s teams because the terrifying transgender player isn’t good enough to make those squads. Their top hitters spikes are at least 50 mph, some considerably higher. The best male college players can hit up to 70 mph but the trans player is an average player in women’s volleyball.

Also, 6-3 is a normal height for hitters on good Div 1 women’s volleyball teams, not some anomaly.

And the one play where the girl got hit in the face is a thing that happens in competitive volleyball, sometimes because you are trying to use your shoulder as an emergency dig of a deep serve or spike and fuck up, sometimes because you are too slow. But it is not like ooooh she was targeted!!!!

I think that you are just saying it is great political optics and I am not sure if you have genuine objections in this case otherwise, but this one is so damned irritating.

Lol damn, you know you fucked up when nyc comes this hard.

 

[BillOfRights]

Will be interesting to see if after barely passing the house there are enough dem votes in the senate to pass the filibuster. It seems as if a majority of dem voters oppose trans in women sports but only 2 dem house members voted for the bill.

AOC, Jeffries remain silent on Democrat backlash after saying anti-trans athlete bill empowers child predators

Hakeem Jeffries and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez have not addressed voter backlash to the argument that protecting women's sports would empower child predators.

www.foxnews.com

Where is the Protection of Women and Girls from trump and hesgeth Act?

 

[ZenMode]

As I said on a different thread the other day, I think that the left’s defense of our transgender brothers and sisters is not only noble, but morally and ethically the right thing. I think that the right’s repeated bullying of our transgender brothers and sisters is as pathetic as it is immoral and unethical.

But Democrats have to completely cede this issue for now, IMO. They cannot win it, and continuing to try to fight it will only continue to result in more electoral problems. You can’t pass policy or you can’t fix what’s broken if you can’t get elected.

As a matter of fact, I think the left needs to completely cede the entire culture war battlefield to the right. The entire focus of the Democratic Party over the next 18 months needs to be hammering Republicans on the bad economy and skyrocketing inflation. That’s it.

I don't think they need to cede the trans issue entirely. I really think it's dogmatism that is costing Democrats. By dogmatism I mean taking the approach that making ANY distinction between trans women and biological women for ANY purpose (i.e. athletics) is a thought crime.

Trans women and trans men are people and deserve political equality of all people, but that doesn't mean trans women and biological women are completely indistinguishable in every situation..

 

[Huh?]

I don't think they need to cede the trans issue entirely. I really think it's dogmatism that is costing Democrats. By dogmatism I mean taking the approach that making ANY distinction between trans women and biological women for ANY purpose (i.e. athletics) is a thought crime.

Trans women and trans men are people and deserve political equality of all people, but that doesn't mean trans women and biological women are completely indistinguishable in every situation..

I agree with this. Those of us of a certain age remember the discomfort around the exploitation of women on the East German swim team. I think we can maintain biological distinctions in high performance sports and , at the same time, also provide sufficient support and recognition for trans rights. They are not mutually exclusive.

 

[tar pal]

Laying aside injuries I believe it is unfair to birth women for trans to complete as it will take away opportunities and scholarships. People fought hard for title IX and it is a federal law. Someone thought it important enough to bring it to vote. Below is why I think it is unfair.

Just how much of an advantage did Lia Thomas possesses over biological females? The numbers paint a clear picture. The fact that the University of Pennsylvania swimmer soared from a mid-500s ranking (554th in the 200 freestyle; all divisions) in men’s competition to one of the top-ranked swimmers in women’s competition tells the story of the unfairness which unfolded at the NCAA level.

In her final meet, Thomas finaled in three events at the NCAA Championships, highlighted by a victory in the 500 freestyle. She also finished fifth in the 200 freestyle and was eighth in the 100 freestyle. Although she didn’t contest the event at the NCAA Champs, Thomas had one of the country’s top times in the 1650 freestyle. Here’s a look at her performances throughout the season, including their comparative status to her times as a member of Penn’s men’s squad.

• In the 500 freestyle, Thomas’ time of 4:33.24 from her NCAA-title swim handed her the fastest time in the nation by more than a second over Arizona State’s Emma Nordin (4:34.87). Additionally, Thomas’ difference from her personal best with the Penn men’s program was just 6%, as opposed to the typical 10% to 11% difference generally seen between men and women.
• Thomas’ best time in the 200 freestyle ended up being her 1:41.93 mark from the Zippy Invitational in December. That effort ultimately ended up 3.76% slower than her best time before her transition. Again, that time was between 7% and 8% faster than the typical separation between men and women.
• When Thomas won the 200 freestyle at the Ivy League Champs in 1:43.12, she was even with runnerup Samantha Shelton at the midway point, but crushed the Harvard swimmer over the last 100, highlighted by a 25.04 split for the last 50 yards. The closing split of Thomas was faster than the finishing laps of Missy Franklin in her American-record performance, and the best closing effort of the likes of Katie Ledecky, Mallory Comerford and Siobhan Haughey, among others.
• In the 100 freestyle, Thomas’ best time prior to her transition was 47.15. At the NCAA Championships, she posted a prelims time in the event of 47.37. That time reflects minimal mitigation of her male-puberty advantage.
• During the last season Thomas competed as a member of the Penn men’s team, which was 2018-19, she ranked 554th in the 200 freestyle, 65th in the 500 freestyle and 32nd in the 1650 freestyle. As her career at Penn wrapped, she moved to fifth, first and eighth in those respective events on the women’s deck.

 

[BlooVooDoo]

Birth women. That’s a new one for me.

 

[BillOfRights]

Laying aside injuries I believe it is unfair to birth women for trans to complete as it will take away opportunities and scholarships. People fought hard for title IX and it is a federal law. Someone thought it important enough to bring it to vote. Below is why I think it is unfair.

Just how much of an advantage did Lia Thomas possesses over biological females? The numbers paint a clear picture. The fact that the University of Pennsylvania swimmer soared from a mid-500s ranking (554th in the 200 freestyle; all divisions) in men’s competition to one of the top-ranked swimmers in women’s competition tells the story of the unfairness which unfolded at the NCAA level.

In her final meet, Thomas finaled in three events at the NCAA Championships, highlighted by a victory in the 500 freestyle. She also finished fifth in the 200 freestyle and was eighth in the 100 freestyle. Although she didn’t contest the event at the NCAA Champs, Thomas had one of the country’s top times in the 1650 freestyle. Here’s a look at her performances throughout the season, including their comparative status to her times as a member of Penn’s men’s squad.

• In the 500 freestyle, Thomas’ time of 4:33.24 from her NCAA-title swim handed her the fastest time in the nation by more than a second over Arizona State’s Emma Nordin (4:34.87). Additionally, Thomas’ difference from her personal best with the Penn men’s program was just 6%, as opposed to the typical 10% to 11% difference generally seen between men and women.
• Thomas’ best time in the 200 freestyle ended up being her 1:41.93 mark from the Zippy Invitational in December. That effort ultimately ended up 3.76% slower than her best time before her transition. Again, that time was between 7% and 8% faster than the typical separation between men and women.
• When Thomas won the 200 freestyle at the Ivy League Champs in 1:43.12, she was even with runnerup Samantha Shelton at the midway point, but crushed the Harvard swimmer over the last 100, highlighted by a 25.04 split for the last 50 yards. The closing split of Thomas was faster than the finishing laps of Missy Franklin in her American-record performance, and the best closing effort of the likes of Katie Ledecky, Mallory Comerford and Siobhan Haughey, among others.
• In the 100 freestyle, Thomas’ best time prior to her transition was 47.15. At the NCAA Championships, she posted a prelims time in the event of 47.37. That time reflects minimal mitigation of her male-puberty advantage.
• During the last season Thomas competed as a member of the Penn men’s team, which was 2018-19, she ranked 554th in the 200 freestyle, 65th in the 500 freestyle and 32nd in the 1650 freestyle. As her career at Penn wrapped, she moved to fifth, first and eighth in those respective events on the women’s deck.

So you don't believe in equal treatment under the law.