Public Health News | Measles outbreak, RFK Etc
- Thread starter nycfan
- Start date
- Replies: 665
- Views: 17K
- Politics
ZenMode
Inconceivable Member
- Messages
- 2,974
I'm opposed to 40 studies to study vaccine hesitancy. I'm opposed to wasting money studying a connection between vaccination and autism.
I'm not opposed to research in general and my comment wasn't related to the finances. My comment was more about the liberal perspective, the side which, based on the comments here, seems to not really have a spending limit on research. My comment was more about the acceptability of such a study and, If it was viewed as unacceptable, why would it be viewed as such.
Last edited:
ChileG
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,566
What in the actual f….RFK Jr. will order placebo testing for new vaccines, alarming health experts
The potential change outlined in a statement would require all new vaccines to undergo placebo testing, sparking concerns among medical experts.
—> https://wapo.st/3EM3SCa
“… Vaccines for new pathogens are often tested this way. But for well-researched diseases, such as measles and polio, public health experts say it makes little sense to do that and can be unethical, because the placebo group would not receive a known effective intervention.
HHS did not clarify how the change will be implemented and for which vaccines the testing would apply, nor did it define what the department meant by “new vaccine.” But the government indicated it wouldn’t apply to the flu vaccine, which is updated year to year and which HHS stated “has been tried and tested for more than 80 years.”
In response to questions about whether other vaccines previously safety tested would be newly scrutinized, the department focused on its concerns around the coronavirus vaccine but did not address other immunizations.
Kennedy has long disparaged vaccines, said they are not adequately safety tested and previously called for placebo testing for vaccines that are approved for use. …”
gtyellowjacket
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,860
I don't know what the question is. If the question is if there is a trace of aborted human fetus in vaccines, the answer would be yes. If the question is if there's a lot, I would say the answer is no.
Can you give a yes or no without a qualifier such as essentially?
Then no. Those lines are forty years old and the individual cells don't live that long. That's the science. You tell me why you buy the superstition.
gtyellowjacket
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,860
I guess I was leaning that way when I read the fact sheet from the childrens hospital of Pennsylvania that stayed explicitly that there was a trace of human DNA in vaccines. Can you tell me why you think that science is some sort of witchcraft that frightens you?
- Messages
- 1,378
You left off psychotic...
Then why did you provide the first link that I quoted in an earlier post that explicitly and in detail denied that there was aborted fetal debris in the vaccine. That was your claim. Human DNA is not the same thing. I don't know if that's a logic or vocabulary problem for you.
Can you tell me why you are so stupid that you deny the evidence you yourself provided? It tends to make me think you don't argue in good faith.
gtyellowjacket
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,860
How in the world is aborted human DNA not the same thing as aborted fetal debris? Is DNA another of the things you don't believe exist outside of the realm of sorcery?
Last edited:
When you learn to read, get back to me.
From a post of yours earlier.
I guess I was leaning that way when I read the fact sheet from the childrens hospital of Pennsylvania that stayed explicitly that there was a trace of human DNA in vaccines.
From a link you posted (and I quoted) earlier.
Descendant cells are the medium in which these vaccines are prepared. The cell lines under consideration were begun using cells taken from one or more fetuses aborted almost 40 years ago. Since that time the cell lines have grown independently. It is important to note that descendant cells are not the cells of the aborted child. They never, themselves, formed a part of the victim's body.
In total only two fetuses, both obtained from abortions done by maternal choice, have given rise to the human cell strains used in vaccine development. Neither abortion was performed for the purpose of vaccine development.
From your Children's Hospital link you posted earlier.
Q. Is [human] fetal cell DNA contained in vaccines?
A. Because vaccine viruses go through several steps of purification
and because DNA does not withstand these processes very well,
any components of DNA that remain are highly fragmented and
minimal. When DNA from the production process has been
measured in vaccines, it was only present in picogram quantities.
A picogram is one-trillionth of a gram (0.000000000001). As such,
this small amount of fragmented material is not able to cause
damage or interact with our own DNA.
Which of these justify your claim that there is aborted fetal debris in the vaccine? RIF, idiot. Fwiw, debris suggests a contaminant, which is completely debunked in whole and in part by the sum total of all this.
Even if it were, if the residue is measured in trillionths of a gram, you probably come close to getting that much foreign fetal DNA every time you walk past a pregnant woman.
gtyellowjacket
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,860
I'm back to you now after learning how to read. Here's the quote that justifies my claim that there is aborted fetus debris in the vaccine.
"When [human] DNA from the production process has been measured in vaccines, it was only present in picogram quantities. A picogram is one-trillionth of a gram (0.000000000001)."
Since the DNA came from aborted fetuses, that confirms that there is a trace of aborted fetus debris in the vaccine. To be more specific, that sounds like there's one trillionth of a gram in vaccines. I'm not sure how you are still claiming that zero is the exact same thing as greater than 0. Maybe you could share your thinking on that.
SmilingJack
Honored Member
- Messages
- 770
The argument that this is fetal DNA is IMO a reductionist materialist position that is explicitly not pro-life. It contends that cells on a plate or in a freezer are the same as a fetus and thus logically removes a special condition of humanity from a fetus. Why care about a fetus if it is just a collection of DNA undergoing biochemistry no different than cells in a freezer that one can purchase.
gtyellowjacket
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,860
I don't care that there is fetal DNA in vaccines. I'm still going to take the vaccines.
I apparently care way more than I should that some person that I'm never going to meet doesn't know the difference between none and some and we are both arguing until we are blue in the face over something very inconsequential trying to prove the other one wrong.
Viral DNA is in every bite of food one eats... the argument is reduced to absurdity.
PTOHeel
Exceptional Member
- Messages
- 103
I may not be understanding how this works in generating the vaccines in question, but aren't the trace segments of DNA coming from a line of cells that originated in a fetus a long time ago? If so, wouldn't it be accurate to say that the trace amounts of DNA in the vaccine were never physically present in a fetus? If I'm correct in my understanding (which I may not be), I would not call that trace amount of DNA "aborted fetus debris."
gtyellowjacket
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,860
I think we are discussing fetal dna from a human. Not viral dna.
There's no connection there as the first serious link you posted ( that you've now tried to discredit. How stupid and tacky) said that there was none. I have never said there was no human DNA. I posted the information the the human DNA was beyond scant and that there was no evidence that it could be characterized as aborted fetal debris.
gtyellowjacket
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,860
I may be wrong as well but I believe that the original cells from the fetus have been reproduced umpteen number of times in a lab and are being used to create the vaccine. So while the cells today were never in the original fetus, the cells are effectively clones of the original fetus and are fetal cells. In the process of creating the vaccine, most of this new fetal cell material is destroyed and only a tiny trace of that fetal cell material is still in the vaccine.