Raphael Warnock knows the way forward

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Getting back to the topic at hand, I think there is something to be said for harnessing Christianity in a certain way. In many ways, Christianity birthed liberalism.

In context of the times, Christianity was the only real going concern. It birthed every idea ,pro and con with few exceptions. Not meaning to take you to task. It's a trigger for me because it's always "true" and always some sort of sop to Christianity.
 
Getting back to the topic at hand, I think there is something to be said for harnessing Christianity in a certain way. In many ways, Christianity birthed liberalism.

In context of the times, Christianity was the only real going concern. It birthed every idea ,pro and con with few exceptions. Not meaning to take you to task. It's a trigger for me because it's always "true" and always some sort of sop to Christianity.
Fair enough. A more contemporary example is the power of liberation theology in South/Central America. Left wing movements have been built on this and won real rights for people.

It’s basically the same theory as the civil rights movement here: expressing moral outrage at a crisis of poverty and oppression through the lens of Christian tradition.
 
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party of individual freedom, including religion.

That's how you can start to win back in even the red states
I disagree. We cannot be THAT party. Freedom of religion to Trump voters means Christian nationalism. It would help us, I think, to quote Bible verses.
 
Clearly I just need to stop mentioning Bernie at all. Something about him makes liberal Democrats foam at the mouth when they would otherwise agree with what I’m saying.

Getting back to the topic at hand, I think there is something to be said for harnessing Christianity in a certain way. In many ways, Christianity birthed liberalism.

The point I was making was that civil rights and economic rights have always been connected at the hip in America. Language of economic rights was a huge part of the civil rights movement in the 60s. These two things are supposed to coexist. I only brought Bernie up because he was an active participant in the civil rights movement and that informs his politics.

MLK was socialist for God’s sake. This stuff has a deep tradition.
1. Bernie makes us foam at the mouth because we perceive him to be one of the causes of the 2016 debacle. I'm not going to argue that point here. I will say that I believe it, and I have good reasons to believe it (whether or not they are empirically accurate), and lots of other liberals who lived through it do too. I mean, you kind of lived through it but not the same way as those of us who have been fighting for a long time.

2. The point I was making is that the Warnock clip above can the fount of all sorts of political programs. It's consistent with Bernie's message. It appeals to black people and likely Latinos. It's consistent with protecting gay rights and women's rights.

We will need to sort out exactly how those programs play together, but I nominate this as our political framework. I need my neighbor's children to be OK in order for my children to be OK.

3. And seriously, folks, we need someone who can get a crowd going like that. I mean, Kamala got plenty of applause this cycle, but there's just something distinctive and effective from voices emanating from the black church. I guess it's been a style refined from the many decades spent learning to offer hope and optimism to a population that has been treated so badly and has every reason to just be pissed off at the world.
 
1. I swear to God, if Dems are still talking about this "we need better messaging" bullshit by next week, I'm going to lose my mind. Here's the problem:

A. Dems have traditionally had three core constituencies: working class whites (especially men), professional women (who care about issues like glass ceilings and reproductive rights more than the working class), and black people. Somewhere along the way, we also picked up gay people.

B. It turns out that the first category hates the people in the other categories. We literally just witnessed that play out over the past year, the past three years, the past ten years. It also turns out that black people don't like professional women all that much, and certainly not gay people. And professional women are not that numerous and some % of them are pro-life voters who are probably unreachable.

C. You cannot win elections consistently when parts of your base hates another part of your base.

There is no amount of messaging that can paper over this basic problem. Thus do we need a plan. And if the plan doesn't take account of this reality and address it head-on, then it is a shit plan that will guarantee future losses.

2. I've been thinking back to the DNC. To me, the most powerful part was the close of Raphael Warnock's speech. Link below for those who don't remember. It still gives me chills.

"In order for my children to be OK, I need all my neighbor's children to be OK" is what liberal politics is all about. That was the tenor of the MLK message. That was Barack Obama's message. And it's a message that everyone can rally around.

3. This is to say that we need more Christianity in Dem politics. The Pubs have given us an opening by embracing a Christianity of hate. And we can take that mantle by expressly embracing our shared religious traditions. That doesn't mean we need to be bigots. Warnock, after all, talked about the children of Gaza and of Israel to be OK in that speech.

What's the most enduring image or memory of Obama's presidency? For me, his singing at the Charleston funeral is high on the list, and I don't think I'm alone in that. Obama was a competent technocrat and a person fully conversant in the Christian tradition.

4. This isn't exactly my wheelhouse, and it's not my intuition either. [Note to people who think I'm arrogant: I'm literally suggesting that Dem politics move away from my areas of expertise, which is to say that I'm suggesting sidelining myself to some degree, so maybe ask yourself what arrogance really means.] I expect pushback. And if you ask me how, I won't be able to tell you because I don't really attend a church.

But if you look at the most resounding victories of liberalism over the years, they were the Civil Rights movement and Obama '08. Those two victories were based on the same principles.



The part that really got everyone going starts at 12:33 or so (or 12:42 if you want to skip the runup).

"You cannot win elections consistently when parts of your base hates another part of your base."

The most hated president in all of our lifetimes, and possibly ever, has not only increased his popular vote every year, but increased his total in every racial demographic except white people. Other Republicans made large gains in POC voters, specifically Ted Cruz.

Maybe Republicans just talk about things that matter to all (most) voters and avoid identity politics that POC generally don't seem to care about.
 
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"You cannot win elections consistently when parts of your base hates another part of your base."

The most hated president in all of our lifetimes, and possibly ever, has not only increased his popular vote every year, but increased his total in every racial demographic except white people. Other Republicans made large gains in POC voters, specifically Ted Cruz.

Maybe Republicans just talk about things that matter to all (most) voters and avoid identity politics that POC generally don't seem to care about.
That's what I think. Democrats got by for a long time on identity politics: let's get the first POC/woman/gay to some major political office, but not worry that a whole lot of people's lives weren't getting a whole lot better. They sold it so well that they managed to convince a great part of our losing coalition that the only reason so and so wasn't elected was because the vast number of Republicans were racist, misogynistic or homophobic.

It's time to reject that strategy and focus on improving people's lives. And it's there for the taking. People see how skewed the income spectrum is. There's a huge desire for unions right now. Folks even recognize that we can give the middle class a tax cut while still asking the extremely rich to pay a whole lot more. Time to make it happen.
 
"You cannot win elections consistently when parts of your base hates another part of your base."

The most hated president in all of our lifetimes, and possibly ever, has not only increased his popular vote every year, but increased his total in every racial demographic except white people. Other Republicans made large gains in POC voters, specifically Ted Cruz.

Maybe Republicans just talk about things that matter to all (most) voters and avoid identity politics that POC generally don't seem to care about.
Sorry I just started laughing uncontrollably at the suggestion that Republicans in general (and Ted Cruz specifically) don't engage in "identity politics."
 
Agree about Sanders messaging.

Just look at this Masterclass of messaging - the perfect political ad: People working, working together, finding motivation, connecting with each other for a united American ideal.

If there was a "coup" (besides the Putin thumb on the scale) it was the DNC stonewalling Sanders when he had momentum in 2016. He would have crushed Trump. I don't agree with a lot of Bernie's policies but McConnell and Bernie would have each had to compromise. It would have been fine. Bernie would have never fired the Pandemic Team in 2018...because there wasn't a pandemic. FAIL


Bernie wasn’t beating Trump. Trump beat Hillary and Kamala by branding them communists, what do you think he would have done to Bernie?
 
Sorry I just started laughing uncontrollably at the suggestion that Republicans in general (and Ted Cruz specifically) don't engage in "identity politics."
I'm sure I'll get a lot of pushback on this opinion, but I think the Republican (aka white guy) identity politics is in response to the identity politics on the left.

Identity politics didn't exist, at least not to any meaningful degree, under GWB. Politics was ideas for groups regardless of skin color. It's developed since then. Most of Trump's schtick is convincing people that he fighting for them against the byproducts of identity politics from the Left.
 
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I'm sure I'll get a lot of pushback on this opinion, but I think the Republican (aka white guy) identity politics is in response to the identity politics on the left.

Identity politics didn't exist, at least not to any meaningful degree, under GWB. It's developed since then. Most of Trump's schtick is convincing people that he fighting for them against the byproducts of identity politics from the Left.
Huh? Identity politics didn’t exist under Bush? Are you forgetting the whole anti-Muslim/anti-Arab hysteria after 9/11? I was a huge GWB fan and was a hardcore Republican at the time, and even to me it’s clearly obvious that there were certainly identity politics at the time.

Trump just ran an entire campaign based on identity politics and nothing but identity politics- and it was successful. Nobody in the left was calling people “vermin” or saying that they have “dirty genes” or are “poisoning the blood of America.”

I think identity politics are stupid all the way around, whether it’s my side or the other side doing it. Most people, regardless of ideology, just want to be “Americans.” Not “BIPOC” or “Latinx” or “Indigenous” or whatever else. They just want to be Americans. The left got way too academic and wonky with the identity politics, but I think it was at least out of a sense of nobly trying to protect those whom people on the left consider to be marginalized. The problem is, too often the left likes to determine that people are marginalized without their consent. But to act like Republicans don’t participate in or enjoy identity politics of their own is laughably absurd.
 
I'm sure I'll get a lot of pushback on this opinion, but I think the Republican (aka white guy) identity politics is in response to the identity politics on the left.

Identity politics didn't exist, at least not to any meaningful degree, under GWB. Politics was ideas for groups regardless of skin color. It's developed since then. Most of Trump's schtick is convincing people that he fighting for them against the byproducts of identity politics from the Left.
I don't even know where to start except to say that you are the most clueless person about identity politics that I'm aware of. Let's start with the idea that identity politics is about skin color. No, it about those groups that those ideas are for. The white supremacist idea is identity politics and the richest source of it in American history. It's so prevalent that it looks like reality to you. The appeal to white evangelicals is identity politics, also an idea before any of the groups you're thinking of had the right to vote. Come back and discuss this if you ever have a hint of a sniff of a clue. Well, hell. You might have that when you suggest that skin color is a part. Still clueless about the concept, though.
 
I'm sure I'll get a lot of pushback on this opinion, but I think the Republican (aka white guy) identity politics is in response to the identity politics on the left.

Identity politics didn't exist, at least not to any meaningful degree, under GWB. Politics was ideas for groups regardless of skin color. It's developed since then. Most of Trump's schtick is convincing people that he fighting for them against the byproducts of identity politics from the Left.
Yeah man there were definitely no "identify politics" involved in the Southern Strategy (just ask Lee Atwater!), Reagan's "welfare queens," Willie Horton, Birtherism, etc.

And framing Trump's "identity politics" as purely defensive is just a massive cop-out. Over the last 10 years Trump and his cronies have consistently pushed identify politics as wedge issues - making "men in women's' sports" and all sorts of blatant and dog-whistle remarks related to anti-immigrant and xenophobic sentiment the feature of the campaign. You can't seriously suggest that "they're eating the cats and gods" was some sort of response to identity politics from the left.
 
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Huh? Identity politics didn’t exist under Bush? Are you forgetting the whole anti-Muslim/anti-Arab hysteria after 9/11? I was a huge GWB fan and was a hardcore Republican at the time, and even to me it’s clearly obvious that there were certainly identity politics at the time.

Trump just ran an entire campaign based on identity politics and nothing but identity politics- and it was successful. Nobody in the left was calling people “vermin” or saying that they have “dirty genes” or are “poisoning the blood of America.”

I think identity politics are stupid all the way around, whether it’s my side or the other side doing it. Most people, regardless of ideology, just want to be “Americans.” Not “BIPOC” or “Latinx” or “Indigenous” or whatever else. They just want to be Americans. The left got way too academic and wonky with the identity politics, but I think it was at least out of a sense of nobly trying to protect those whom people on the left consider to be marginalized. The problem is, too often the left likes to determine that people are marginalized without their consent. But to act like Republicans don’t participate in or enjoy identity politics of their own is laughably absurd.
I would say the 9/11 reaction is more stereotyping combined with bigotry and xenophobia, but really not necessarily identity politics.

I'm not going to defend Trump. He's a moron who says the most idiotic things ever uttered by a president/presidential candidate and, yes, white identity politics has become a thing. I believe it's a thing that is a reaction to the identity politics of the Left, which I believe you accurately described in your third paragraph. I also believe it is mostly a "thing" for white, straight Christian males. Along with the economy and border, I think identity politics is a major reason of white, straight, Christian males flocking to Trump. Hence Harris' conference calls specifically directed at white guys. Oh, the irony!
 
I don't even know where to start except to say that you are the most clueless person about identity politics that I'm aware of. Let's start with the idea that identity politics is about skin color. No, it about those groups that those ideas are for. The white supremacist idea is identity politics and the richest source of it in American history. It's so prevalent that it looks like reality to you. The appeal to white evangelicals is identity politics, also an idea before any of the groups you're thinking of had the right to vote. Come back and discuss this if you ever have a hint of a sniff of a clue. Well, hell. You might have that when you suggest that skin color is a part. Still clueless about the concept, though.
I absolutely believe skin color is one aspect of identity politics. It's not the only. Gender, religion, sexual preferences, nationality..... I'm sure there are more, but I'm not saying it's only skin color/race.
 
Identity politics for Republicans has existed for decades. As others have said, the whole Southern strategy, for example. Heck, Nixon's "silent majority" was really identity politics.

Calling people "pinko" or un American or not real Americans - that is identity politics.

Something that annoys the heck out of me is when conservatives describe academics or others as "not living in the real world." What? Academics don't have mortgages? They don't have to buy groceries and gas? They don't have health issues? Of course they do. They live in just as real a world as others.

Yet, there is the right playing identity politics with them - they are not part of the "real world" we "regular Americans" live in.
 
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