Rare Copy of US Constitution Found in Edenton, Will Be Auctioned in #AVL

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lawtig02 said:
This is a bit of an aside, but I’m currently reading “Who’s Your Founding Father” by David Fleming (yes, the ESPN writer). It’s an extremely entertaining account of the Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence. Can’t vouch 100% for its accuracy, but it’s a great read that has taught me a lot I didn’t know about the history of the Charlotte area.

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Does the author contend that the Mecklenberg Declaration happened?
 
lawtig02 said:
Yep.
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Does he address the whole switch from the Julian calendar the Gregorian calendar thing? Is is difficult to believe that anyone outside a few delusional residents of Mecklenburg County believe the Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence is real.
Link: Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence | NCpedia

Mecklenburg Resolves - There is contemporaneous evidence of their existence.

Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence:
1. No contemporaneous evidence of it's existence.
2. Have to believe people like Jefferson, Adams, and Franklin would have plagiarized a bunch of back county farmers in NC.
3. It is a shame that the spurious Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence marginalizes the Mecklenburg Resolves, which actually is an important document.
4. It puts a lie on the NC State Flag.
 
05C40 said:
Does he address the whole switch from the Julian calendar the Gregorian calendar thing? Is is difficult to believe that anyone outside a few delusional residents of Mecklenburg County believe the Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence is real.
Link: Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence | NCpedia

Mecklenburg Resolves - There is contemporaneous evidence of their existence.

Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence:
1. No contemporaneous evidence of it's existence.
2. Have to believe people like Jefferson, Adams, and Franklin would have plagiarized a bunch of back county farmers in NC.
3. It is a shame that the spurious Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence marginalizes the Mecklenburg Resolves, which actually is an important document.
4. It puts a lie on the NC State Flag.
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I’m not going to spend much time defending it because I don’t really care that much. Fleming’s book is just a great read, and it makes a fairly solid, albeit far from dispositive, case.

On one of your points, though, Adams was apparently very much of the view the MecDec happened, and one of the main reasons is that he knew TJ to be a notorious plagiarist and liar.

ETA — Also, the people who are alleged to have drafted it were educated at Princeton, so not everyone around at that time was a “back country farmer.”
 
lawtig02 said:
I’m not going to spend much time defending it because I don’t really care that much. Fleming’s book is just a great read, and it makes a fairly solid, albeit far from dispositive, case.

On one of your points, though, Adams was apparently very much of the view the MecDec happened, and one of the main reasons is that he knew TJ to be a notorious plagiarist and liar.

ETA — Also, the people who are alleged to have drafted it were educated at Princeton, so not everyone around at that time was a “back country farmer.”
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Did you read the NCpedia article? One of the purported drafters attended Princeton. How old are you? When you are in your 70's or 80's, try to redraft a document that you wrote 44 years earlier. John Adams was not of the view that the Mecklenburg Declaration was real. Being surprised that others thought it to be real is a different emotion from thinking it was real.

Finally, to believe the Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence is real is to spit on the Mecklenburg Resolves, which were a truly important statement whose publication put the very lives of its signers at risk.
 
donbosco said:



“The copy was found inside a squat, two-drawer metal filing cabinet with a can of stain on top, in a long-neglected room piled high with old chairs and a dusty book case…” in the one-time Edenton home of Independence-era Governor Samuel Johnston (1787-1789). It will be auctioned off September 28th in #Asheville. A letter from George Washington accompanies the document.

A rare 1787 copy of the US Constitution is up for auction and it could be worth millions
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Some people are saying that a certain best president in the history of the United States is going to buy the document and use it as toilet paper.
 
The "discussion" about the Meck Dec can, at times, approach BBQ in its contentiousness in the Tar Heel State.
 
05C40 said:
Did you read the NCpedia article? One of the purported drafters attended Princeton. How old are you? When you are in your 70's or 80's, try to redraft a document that you wrote 44 years earlier. John Adams was not of the view that the Mecklenburg Declaration was real. Being surprised that others thought it to be real is a different emotion from thinking it was real.

Finally, to believe the Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence is real is to spit on the Mecklenburg Resolves, which were a truly important statement whose publication put the very lives of its signers at risk.
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Well, of course Ronnie Faulkner thinks it was fake. He was born in ENC, and got his PhD from USC. I bet he’s also been stuck on the tarmac a few times at CLT. 😁

Seriously, though, I really don’t care if the MecDec was real or not. Fleming’s book is just a great story. And it makes me happy to read someone raining disdain on the effete, dishonest, war-dodging, slaveowning, hypocritical rapist Thomas Jefferson.
 
donbosco said:
The "discussion" about the Meck Dec can, at times, approach BBQ in its contentiousness in the Tar Heel State.
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I disagree. The link I provided is a direct quote from pages 725-6 of the 2006 edition of the 2006 Edition of the "Encyclopedia of North Carolina" edited by William S. Powell. If you can provide a link where William S. Powell weighs in on the which is better, Eastern NC BBQ or Western NC BBQ, then I will rethink my beliefs on the Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence.
 
lawtig02 said:
Well, of course Ronnie Faulkner thinks it was fake. He was born in ENC, and got his PhD from USC. I bet he’s also been stuck on the tarmac a few times at CLT. 😁

Seriously, though, I really don’t care if the MecDec was real or not. Fleming’s book is just a great story. And it makes me happy to read someone raining disdain on the effete, dishonest, war-dodging, slaveowning, hypocritical rapist Thomas Jefferson.
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I wasn't opining on Thomas Jefferson, whose faults are numerous, well documented, and all but scientifically proved to all but his most blind followers. But using the spurious NC Declaration of Independence as a tool to attack Jefferson does not promote the well earned distain that Jefferson both earned and deserves. Instead, such spurious attacks on Jefferson's character only undermine his real character flaws that harmed real people.

ETA: Attack Jefferson using the truth. Attacking Jefferson using a lie does not achieve the ends you propose. Sort of like attacking Trump. There is plenty of real stuff to attack Trump on, we don't need to make-up stuff. Making up stuff about Trump only undermines the truth. Same for Jefferson. The truth is a sufficient tool for both Jefferson and Trump.
 
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05C40 said:
I disagree. The link I provided is a direct quote from pages 725-6 of the 2006 edition of the 2006 Edition of the "Encyclopedia of North Carolina" edited by William S. Powell. If you can provide a link where William S. Powell weighs in on the which is better, Eastern NC BBQ or Western NC BBQ, then I will rethink my beliefs on the Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence.
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That was not the type of discussion that "Dr." Powell would join. (Though I do believe that he knew it was fake)
 
05C40 said:
I wasn't opining on Thomas Jefferson, whose faults are numerous, well documented, and all but scientifically proved to all but his most blind followers. But using the spurious NC Declaration of Independence as a tool to attack Jefferson does not promote the well earned distain that Jefferson both earned and deserves. Instead, such spurious attacks on Jefferson's character only undermine his real character flaws that harmed real people.

ETA: Attack Jefferson using the truth. Attacking Jefferson using a lie does not achieve the ends you propose. Sort of like attacking Trump. There is plenty of real stuff to attack Trump on, we don't need to make-up stuff. Making up stuff about Trump only undermines the truth. Same for Jefferson. The truth is a sufficient tool for both Jefferson and Trump.
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Good lord. You obviously feel about a million times more invested in this than I do, so I’ll just back out at this point. Sometimes a story is a good story whether it’s 100% factually accurate or not.
 
So...I often teach NC History. What should I say about the Mecklenberg Declaration of Independence in my class?
 
donbosco said:
So...I often teach NC History. What should I say about the Mecklenberg Declaration of Independence in my class?
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I'm not sure I'd teach it at all unless a student brought it up.

If I did teach it, I'd teach the Mecklenburg Resolves first and place those within the context of the American Revolution. Then I'd briefly discuss the Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence and how the stories we tell about ourselves aren't always correct. I'd probably finish it off by pointing to the fact that the Mecklenburg Declaration date is still on the state seal/flag and how folks are very, very slow to let go of the false histories that we like in favor of the facts we know. (Which would make for a great eventual lead-in to the Lost Cause myths from the Civil War.)
 
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donbosco said:
So...I often teach NC History. What should I say about the Mecklenberg Declaration of Independence in my class?
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How about, “The MecDec is a document that may or may not have existed. While most historians, and especially those from parts of the Carolinas other than Mecklenburg County, think it probably did not exist, at least in the form it was later presented, it makes for a really fun story about the general political sentiment in the Carolina backcountry shortly after Lexington and Concord. Like so much of Revolutionary-era history, the distinction between myth and fact is a little blurry, so be skeptical, but don’t be afraid to appreciate why a story like this would be told.”
 
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