Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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ZenMode said:
If they worked with them, that would be conspiracy. The campaign knew what Russia was doing and that they'd benefit from it, but there was no 'worked with'.
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It wouldn't be conspiracy unless the Trump Campaign took actions that enabled and/or assisted what the specific actions the Russians did.

The Trump Campaign only met with the Russians, knew at a high-level what they planned to do, and blessed those efforts by the Russians on their behalf.

I work in the non-profit sector and we fairly regularly have folks reach out to us who want to do a donation drive of items we commonly use on our behalf. In those cases, we send them a public list of items that we use the most, also give them a public description of our agency and services that they can use for publicity, let them know where they can drop off any items they collect for us, and we tell them repeatedly how much we appreciate their actions on our behalf. But we don't actually tell them when to have the donation drive, where to find the folks to give to their donation drive, or how to handle the items they receive. I would say that we "work with" those folks on a donation drive for us, even though we do essentially none of the work involved. Similarly, the Trump Campaign "worked with" the Russians on their election interference efforts, even though they didn't do any of the work.

But, again, imagine that you believe what you've stated to be true to be a defense of the Trump Campaign and their partnership with the Russians to interfere in an American election.
 
You know, now that I think about it without my woke libtard MSNBClinton colored glasses on, I'm having a real hard time thinking of what Russia would have to gain by backing Team Trump. It just doesn't add up. I mean, why on earth would Vlad back Trump? I can't see any way that Russia would benefit by backing such a strong rugged principled Alpha man like Donald John Trump. What could they possibly gain from it? It just makes no sense. You know what? Maybe that lifelong RINO Mueller is just full of shit. I'm not buying it, Bob. Take your Russia Hoax Report and go kick rocks! MAGA! MAGAA! WWG1WGA!!! WWEMD?


Confused Threes Company GIF by MOODMAN
 
Ramrouser said:
Z just completely surrendered to Trump via tweet.
Smart move on Ukraine’s part.
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Trump can puff out his chest now that the leader of a war-torn country has said kind things about him on twitter.

In the Oval, Trump said to Zelensky "You don't have the cards." And he was right. I don't think anyone has argued otherwise. What people have taken offense to is using that leverage to extort an ally. An ally that is spilling blood to defend its territory against one of our geopolitical foes.

I'd encourage you to look through these photos of the war. Is your reaction "These people owe us more"?
 
4thgenheel said:
it's so strange, Mr. "i'm not a trumper!" sure does carry a lot of maga water.
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Either facts and evidence matter or they don't. The most powerful investigative body on the planet said they could not establish that the Trump campaign conspired with Russia.
 
ZenMode said:
Either facts and evidence matter or they don't. The most powerful investigative body on the planet said they could not establish that the Trump campaign conspired with Russia.
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Do you understand that "did not establish X" is not the same as "established not X?" And, as has been pointed out to you many times, the principal reason it could not be established was obstruction by the president, which for reasons of infinite wisdom, they couldn't charge him with. So they couldn't "establish" anything by design.

You'd think that, after the most powerful investigative body in the world looked into the issue, under the direction of Republican AG Jess Sessions, Republican DAG Rod Rosenstein, Republican FBI director James Comey (who Trump fired early on, lol), and Republican special counsel Robert Mueller, Trump would have been exonerated if he did nothing wrong. And yet that's not what happened.
 
superrific said:
Do you understand that "did not establish X" is not the same as "established not X?" And, as has been pointed out to you many times, the principal reason it could not be established was obstruction by the president, which for reasons of infinite wisdom, they couldn't charge him with. So they couldn't "establish" anything by design.

You'd think that, after the most powerful investigative body in the world looked into the issue, under the direction of Republican AG Jess Sessions, Republican DAG Rod Rosenstein, Republican FBI director James Comey (who Trump fired early on, lol), and Republican special counsel Robert Mueller, Trump would have been exonerated if he did nothing wrong. And yet that's not what happened.
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Yes, I realize that not being able to establish something is not the same as saying it didn't happen.

At this point in time, and barring any additional information in the future, we should not believe that Trump or his campaign conspired/coordinated with Russia, unless you believe that you know more than the US government.
 
“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing, I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press,” not said by Trump while not on television in 2016.

Vince Vaughn GIF
 
ZenMode said:
Yes, I realize that not being able to establish something is not the same as saying it didn't happen.

At this point in time, and barring any additional information in the future, we should not believe that Trump or his campaign conspired/coordinated with Russia, unless you believe that you know more than the US government.
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I mean, he literally asked Russia to intervene on his behalf on national television during the 2016 campaign, and there was the phone call to Zelenskyy before the 2020 campaign in which he asked Zelenskyy to investigate his top challenger for the 2020 race.

But yeah, he’s clearly earned the benefit of the doubt here.
 
ZenMode said:
Either facts and evidence matter or they don't. The most powerful investigative body on the planet said they could not establish that the Trump campaign conspired with Russia.
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they said that they couldn't establish grounds for criminal conspiracy or collusion charges.

all of the communications and contacts make it pretty damn crystal clear that the trump campaign did indeed "work with" the russians to some degree.
 
Calheel said:
That tweet is not nearly enough groveling for Trump. Z saying:

Our meeting in Washington, at the White House on Friday, did not go the way it was supposed to be. It is regrettable that it happened this way. It is time to make things right. We would like future cooperation and communication to be constructive.

That is not an apology. At least not one that should move the needle for Trump. That is essentially Z blaming Trump for the issue without directly saying that
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Oh this is just the beginning for Z's apology to Trump. Lots more to follow as his situation becomes more and more desperate.
 
SnoopRob said:
Indians wear suits and ties, but I wouldn't call them "Indian dress". "Indian dress" is much more stuff like lungis and saris and salwars.
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Of course. I meant that Indians are indeed comfortable wearing suits. It's not like Gandhi visits the White House. Every single person in the Indian government is fully comfortable in a suit, having worn them to work for years and years.

The point is that Trump obviously didn't ask Modi to wear a suit, because he obviously doesn't actually care about the suit.
 
Geisterfahrer said:
How can you type any of that and live with knowing what a brainwashed sad coward you are.
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Its what I love about this board. Not one reason as to why you might disagree, just that its wrong in the form of personal attack. Do you have an original thought on why you disagree or do you disagree for sport.
 
ZenMode said:
Yes, I realize that not being able to establish something is not the same as saying it didn't happen.

At this point in time, and barring any additional information in the future, we should not believe that Trump or his campaign conspired/coordinated with Russia, unless you believe that you know more than the US government.
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No, I only have to know more than you. Because you are misinterpreting the Mueller Report. Again, why do you argue law with me? It never works out for you. It never will work out for you. It's like trying to argue about football strategy with an NFL head coach. You can't win that discussion because you are at such a structural disadvantage.
 
superrific said:
No, I only have to know more than you. Because you are misinterpreting the Mueller Report. Again, why do you argue law with me? It never works out for you. It never will work out for you. It's like trying to argue about football strategy with an NFL head coach. You can't win that discussion because you are at such a structural disadvantage.
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Your subjective views of me don't change the fact that, as of now, and if facts and evidence matter, we shouldn't believe that Trump conspired with Russia to interfere in the 2016 election.

Again, if you believe he/they did, then you must also believe that you have access to more information/evidence than the US government.
 
Ramrouser said:
Oh this is just the beginning for Z's apology to Trump. Lots more to follow as his situation becomes more and more desperate.
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Brother, don't hold your breath that any head of state of any country is ever going to publicly apologize to any head of state of any other country.
 
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