Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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nycfan said:

A New Deal With Moscow?​

Trump’s bid for a pact with Putin recalls the efforts of FDR and other presidents.​


GIFT LINK 🎁 —> https://www.wsj.com/opinion/a-new-d...bb?st=2tNMwJ&reflink=mobilewebshare_permalink

“The true nature and the full price of President Trump’s Russia and Ukraine policies has become clear in recent days.

Mr. Trump believes that improved relations with Russia are necessary for the American revival he hopes to lead, and he is willing to pay a high, even stupefying, price in moral authority, alliance relations and Ukrainian territory to get his deal. Vladimir Putin understands this and will charge the U.S. accordingly.

… In offering Mr. Putin explicit recognition of a sphere of interest in portions of the former Soviet Union including Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia and Armenia, Mr. Trump is making larger and more consequential concessions than his 21st-century predecessors tried in their own failed attempts to reach an understanding with Mr. Putin.

And in offering to abandon American support for democracy promotion, Mr. Trump is returning to the studied silence on human rights that characterized Nixon-era détente.

… Given this history, the Kremlin will see any agreements with Mr. Trump as a temporary truce rather than a permanent peace. That limits the value of a deal. Moscow won’t accept permanent restraints on its behavior in exchange for temporary promises from Washington. …”
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"[Trump's strategy] could pull Russia away from China ..."

Those are some Olympic-level mental gymnastics by Mr. Mead. He's apparently implying that Trump is some sort of 3D chess master in diplomacy. However, any sane person will recognize that Trump has no plan 'to pull Russian away from China' because he's merely a Putin fan boy.

"It is tempting but wrong to attack this strategy primarily on moral grounds."

Throwing Ukraine under the bus in some sort of bizarre attempt to lure Russia away from China is not only morally wrong, but strategically idiotic.

"Curbing Beijing’s rise without risking a war between the U.S. and China is both a great and a deeply moral goal."

This is true. But I think we can be certain it won't be accomplished using Trump's approach.

"If Trump policy were to end in a grand bargain with Russia that facilitated a long-term understanding with China, future historians might praise a strategy that contemporary observers largely condemn."

I have no idea what Mr. Mead is thinking will happen between Russia and China as a result of some sort of US rapprochement with Russia. I suspect Mr. Mead has no idea how this is going to happen either. I bet it sounded good when he wrote it though.
 
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Healing said:
Absolutely stunning the retreat from the callayeahs in the last couple of days.

I’m sure they’ll pop their heads out of the RWM miasma as soon as a trans person gets caught jaywalking, and Fox turns it into the nightly pearl clutch. Of course, once they do reappear, they’ll claim they were just so, so busy closing a bigly important deal, or family law case, or spending quality time with their family etc.
Nah, wasn’t bc your godking is shitting the bed and overtly turning the US into a clownish, hateful, incompetent, dangerous, autocracy. Nah, definitely not that.
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No retreat from me. It is very common for me to stay away from this place for days or weeks at a time. Some nasty people on here. Look at your post. You don't want to discuss politics, you want to attack any conservative that participates on the board. What can I possibly say that won't end up in an argument and pissing match. Shout out to Dr. Bob though. Board needs more like him.
 
nycfan said:

U.S. to Restore Military Support to Ukraine After It Agrees to Cease-Fire​

The truce, which is contingent on Russian acceptance, was outlined in a statement issued by Ukraine and the U.S. as officials met in Saudi Arabia​


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www.wsj.com

“The Trump administration said it would immediately lift a pause on intelligence sharing and military support to Ukraine, as Kyiv agreed to implement a 30-day cease-fire in top level talks with U.S. officials.

The plan, which is contingent on Russian acceptance, was outlined in a statement issued by Ukraine and the U.S.

“Today we made an offer which the Ukrainians have accepted, which is to enter into a cease-fire and into immediate negotiations to end this conflict in a way that’s enduring and sustainable and accounts for their interests, their security, their ability to prosper as a nation,” said Secretary of State Marco Rubio.

“We will take this offer now to the Russians and we hope that they’ll say ‘yes,’ that they’ll say ‘yes’ to peace. The ball is now in their court,” he added.

…
Though Zelensky has signaled that he is prepared to conclude an accord on sharing Ukraine’s mineral wealth with the U.S., that agreement hasn’t so far been completed and isn’t expected to be the centerpiece of Tuesday’s meeting.

“It’s an important topic, but it’s not the main topic on the agenda,” Rubio said. …”
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I'm sure this will not be celebrated, but seems very positive.
 
finesse said:
Guess it depends on how you feel about blackmailing friends.
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In the end it will be the US who saves ukraine from becoming part of russia. If ukraine is to blinded to see they had no path forward even with Biden levels of support then that is on them. This is a win for the US, Ukraine, and the rest of the world.
 
Callatoroy said:
No retreat from me. It is very common for me to stay away from this place for days or weeks at a time. Some nasty people on here. Look at your post. You don't want to discuss politics, you want to attack any conservative that participates on the board. What can I possibly say that won't end up in an argument and pissing match. Shout out to Dr. Bob though. Board needs more like him.
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I Love You Kiss GIF by Chicago Fire Football Club
 
It took Russia six months to build the Surovikin Line. Some observers say Putin doesn't want to let up because Ukraine would use the time to dig in. So it will be interesting to see how he finesses this. He won't flat out reject a cease fire, that's for sure.
 
Ukraine has learned over the course of this war to give up territory and save its troops. That's what its doing in Kursk. I suspect they have significant entrenchments just over the border to fall back to. Interestingly, wonder if Russia could have done it without the North Koreans.?

But over on the Eastern Front, Russia appears to be exhausted.
 
Callatoroy said:
In the end it will be the US who saves ukraine from becoming part of russia. If ukraine is to blinded to see they had no path forward even with Biden levels of support then that is on them. This is a win for the US, Ukraine, and the rest of the world.
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It will be the free world that saves Ukraine. Ukraine couldn't fire missiles into Russia until recently. Ukraine couldn't go on offense without the proper artillery support which tool quite awhile to come. Ukraine had no air force to combat the air superiority that the Russians had until finally getting some planes. Everything could have been different if we were all in at the beginning. All this and supposedly against one of the best militaries in the world. Give the Ukrainians some respect.
 
tonman said:
It will be the free world that saves Ukraine. Ukraine couldn't fire missiles into Russia until recently. Ukraine couldn't go on offense without the proper artillery support which tool quite awhile to come. Ukraine had no air force to combat the air superiority that the Russians had until finally getting some planes. Everything could have been different if we were all in at the beginning. All this and supposedly against one of the best militaries in the world. Give the Ukrainians some respect.
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They have my respect. If, if, if. The fact is Biden put reins on them and I didn’t completely disagree at the time but can’t undo it. The free world without the US can’t get it done. The US will be the one entity that drives a conclusion.
 
Callatoroy said:
They have my respect. If, if, if. The fact is Biden put reins on them and I didn’t completely disagree at the time but can’t undo it. The free world without the US can’t get it done. The US will be the one entity that drives a conclusion.
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The United States is not part of the free world any longer. We are an now an adversary to every single nation which would historically be included in that group.
 


Live Updates: U.S. Envoys Head to Moscow as Kremlin Aide Casts Doubt on Cease-Fire Offer​

President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia is weighing a U.S.-backed proposal for a 30-day truce. A Kremlin foreign policy official said such a deal would only benefit Ukraine.

www.nytimes.com

Russia-Ukraine War Live Updates: U.S. Officials Head to Moscow to Push for Cease-Fire

President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia is weighing a U.S.-backed proposal for a 30-day truce. A Kremlin foreign policy official said such a deal would only benefit Ukraine.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

“… Ukraine has said it would back a temporary cease-fire if Russia did the same — but the Kremlin official, Yuri Ushakov, appeared to cast doubt on that prospect on Thursday. He told state television that such a deal would mean “nothing other than a temporary respite for the Ukrainian military,” though he cautioned that he was only offering a preliminary opinion.

Mr. Ushakov, the Kremlin’s foreign policy aide, said that Mr. Putin was expected to weigh in on the matter and give a “concrete assessment” later on Thursday during a news conference with the visiting president of Belarus, Aleksandr G. Lukashenko. …”
 
nycfan said:


Live Updates: U.S. Envoys Head to Moscow as Kremlin Aide Casts Doubt on Cease-Fire Offer​

President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia is weighing a U.S.-backed proposal for a 30-day truce. A Kremlin foreign policy official said such a deal would only benefit Ukraine.

www.nytimes.com

Russia-Ukraine War Live Updates: U.S. Officials Head to Moscow to Push for Cease-Fire

President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia is weighing a U.S.-backed proposal for a 30-day truce. A Kremlin foreign policy official said such a deal would only benefit Ukraine.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

“… Ukraine has said it would back a temporary cease-fire if Russia did the same — but the Kremlin official, Yuri Ushakov, appeared to cast doubt on that prospect on Thursday. He told state television that such a deal would mean “nothing other than a temporary respite for the Ukrainian military,” though he cautioned that he was only offering a preliminary opinion.

Mr. Ushakov, the Kremlin’s foreign policy aide, said that Mr. Putin was expected to weigh in on the matter and give a “concrete assessment” later on Thursday during a news conference with the visiting president of Belarus, Aleksandr G. Lukashenko. …”
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Infuriating we are enabling this bullshit. And 1/2 our country defends it. Fuck everyone of you.
 
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