Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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Ramrouser said:
Mertz: "The path is open. You opened it on Friday." he said "but now the way is open for complicated negotiations."

Stubb: "I think in the past two weeks we've probably had more progress in ending this war than we have in the past three and a half years."

Starmer: "Nobody has been able to bring it to this point."

Meloni: "Something has changed thanks to you."

Hmm, the European leaders sound a lot like that Ramrouser character on Friday when he opined that it was a victory for Putin to come to Alaska to start the process. Trump got the ball rolling on this complicated process. Bill Maher even noted on Friday that the visuals for the US were great with Putin walking down the red carpet flanked by fighter jets with the B-2 flying above his head. "Putin looked like Trump's golf caddy at half his height" smiling nervously in the presence of Trump.

It was a remarkable gathering of the Western powers with the US in the lead. The unity was remarkable and had to be noticed by Putin. The tariff negotiations, as the leaders got to know each other, really helped in cementing their relationships. The bonds between the leaders was so great that the meeting with the European leaders resembled a Trump cabinet meeting.
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Yeah, and when I agreed with my grandfather who had alzheimers that the cows were out there in the pasture and needed to be put away, I was totally 100% in belief of what I was saying. People placate blowhards. People particularly placate blowhards with power. People most certainly placate blowhards with power who are also riddled with dementia.

They are saying what Trump wants to hear because that's the only thing he doesn't lash out at.
 
wmheel1287 said:
Trump says that it's a dealbreaker for Ukraine to be NATO because NATO is Russia's enemy and you can't have your enemy on your border.

Does he realize we are NATO?

Does he view Russia as an enemy?

He certainly doesn't act as if he does.
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He is making it clear what he thinks-and he truly is a Russian asset
 
I thought the big winners yesterday were the European leaders who were united, strong, were consistent with managing or playing Trump. Merz, Meloni, Macron, Starmer, and Finnish president Stubb were firm but not too combative about the insistence for a ceasefire, security guarantee. No one agreed to cede land to the Orcs, even when Doocy Jr. threw out a Kremlin propaganda question. The "right" and left" of Euro politicians were as one. Zelenskyy was prepared. Just the right amount of flattery to keep Trump at bay.

Von de Leyen (Euro President) and NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte completed the Euro wall. Russia's unprovoked aggression has united them and again they were all on the same page with messaging.

Trump won't give it, but a lot of kudos to Biden, Blinken, and Austin for fortifying Europe so they stand as a block against the threat from the East.

While they did not undo Friday's Disastah in Alaska, they've strategically isolated Putin. The Senate wants to provide a $90-100B aid package with weapons sold through Europe. They are poised to provide sanctions if Putin balks in the next round with Zelenskyy. Very interesting chess indeed.



So we see Trump easily manipulated by both Putin and Europe. Still, Trump is more influenced by Putin - we'll see how this plays out. Trump naturally took 10 minutes away to review the strategy session with Putin.
 
nycfan said:
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Orcs gonna Orc.

A backdrop against the European leaders effectively isolating Putin - for the moment. And way Putin whould not be rewarded and must be contained.

I'll be interested to see if Putin even agrees to meet with Zelenskyy. I think Putin is afraid because Zelenskyy can stand toe to toe. I think Zelenskyy's learned to use deference but stay with strength and firmness. Yesterday was IMO a European masterclass. We'll see how it plays out.
 
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wmheel1287 said:
Yeah, and when I agreed with my grandfather who had alzheimers that the cows were out there in the pasture and needed to be put away, I was totally 100% in belief of what I was saying. People placate blowhards. People particularly placate blowhards with power. People most certainly placate blowhards with power who are also riddled with dementia.

They are saying what Trump wants to hear because that's the only thing he doesn't lash out at.
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When my grandmother broke her neck and was hospitalized, in her late 80s, after driving her car over a ditch and into a field, they gave her some powerful pain medication. On one of the days that my mother and I went to visit her, she told us, with complete sincerity, that several lions were in the process of eating Jesse Helms in the parking lot. We let her have that one. It was the happiest we had seen her since the accident.
 
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nycfan said:
IMG_9017.jpeg

🎁 —> Zelensky Wasn’t Going to Repeat His Oval Office Disaster
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In other words, Zelensky figured out that Trump doesn't respond to logic or morality. If anything, he will allow the deeply immoral JD Vance to turn him against any semblance of decency. The only thing Trump responds to is fellation. And the more fellators, the happier Trump will be.

Congrats, MAGA. You have given unlimited power to a man who only cares about the condition of his own dick.
 
nycfan said:
IMG_9017.jpeg

🎁 —> Zelensky Wasn’t Going to Repeat His Oval Office Disaster
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“… despite White House officials saying this past weekend that Putin was willing to accept some sort of peacekeeping force in Ukraine, the Russian foreign ministry released a statement today in which it offered “a categorical rejection of any scenarios involving the presence of a military contingent from NATO countries in Ukraine.”

… Putin gave no indication on Friday that he was inclined to accept genuine reconciliation. And Russia shows no signs of stopping on the battlefield. At least 10 people were killed and 14 wounded in cities across Ukraine early today, just hours before Zelensky and the other European leaders arrived at the White House.“
 
lawtig02 said:
Agree, if you mean long term peace. I could see something like Israel-Gaza, which I think is one of the wars Trump claims to have resolved. A tentative, broad-strokes deal subject to an infinite number of issues that still need to be resolved. That won't happen because (a) Trump doesn't give a shit about the details, and (b) Putin doesn't want peace. So just like in Gaza, Russia will start bombing and attacking Ukraine again.

And all the while, Trump will be saying he solved SEVEN wars, and will continue calling the PM of Norway to demand the Nobel Peace Prize.
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It caught my attention when Zelenski told Trump that Putin wants a deal. That most likely was playing to Trump's wishes and perhaps he meant that Putin needs a deal whether he realizes it or not. Whatever he meant, its useless to get into Putin's head.

I think Zelenski knows that if the intensity of this war drags on for another 12 months, then Putin's done. He can't possibly continue. So most likely the war at that point will grind to a halt. No deal made. Which means, that Zelenski knows there is no good reason for Ukraine to make a deal. At least not on Putin/Trump's terms.

I previously posted that this meeting would be an easy layup for Zelensky. And I believe it was. Zelensky's goal was to humor Trump and buy time. Plus, make it clear that he was ready to meet Putin. That, effectively put the ball in Putin/Trump's court. Time bought.
 
BlueSmoke said:
It caught my attention when Zelenski told Trump that Putin wants a deal. That most likely was playing to Trump's wishes and perhaps he meant that Putin needs a deal whether he realizes it or not. Whatever he meant, its useless to get into Putin's head.

I think Zelenski knows that if the intensity of this war drags on for another 12 months, then Putin's done. He can't possibly continue. So most likely the war at that point will grind to a halt. No deal made. Which means, that Zelenski knows there is no good reason for Ukraine to make a deal. At least not on Putin/Trump's terms.

I previously posted that this meeting would be an easy layup for Zelensky. And I believe it was. Zelensky's goal was to humor Trump and buy time. Plus, make it clear that he was ready to meet Putin. That, effectively put the ball in Putin/Trump's court. Time bought.
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Ukraine's going to get an aid packet out of this. Zelenskyy assumes rightly that Putin will reject Zelenskyy's offer and renege on the BS he sold Trump in the Disastah in Alaska. This will force the US Senate to issue sanctions and fund the big Ukraine aid packet funneled through Europe (everybody gets a cut).

Zelesnkyy and Big Euro really played their cards well yesterday. I thought it was a masterclass...even with a Trump TO to talk with his Master! lol
 
BlueSmoke said:
It caught my attention when Zelenski told Trump that Putin wants a deal. That most likely was playing to Trump's wishes and perhaps he meant that Putin needs a deal whether he realizes it or not. Whatever he meant, its useless to get into Putin's head.

I think Zelenski knows that if the intensity of this war drags on for another 12 months, then Putin's done. He can't possibly continue. So most likely the war at that point will grind to a halt. No deal made. Which means, that Zelenski knows there is no good reason for Ukraine to make a deal. At least not on Putin/Trump's terms.

I previously posted that this meeting would be an easy layup for Zelensky. And I believe it was. Zelensky's goal was to humor Trump and buy time. Plus, make it clear that he was ready to meet Putin. That, effectively put the ball in Putin/Trump's court. Time bought.
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The concern is that Putin also got what he wants -- no additional sanctions and the (putative) leader of the free world backing off the demand for a cease fire. I truly don't know who benefits from a delay in any meaningful peace negotiations. Putin clearly thinks Russia does. Zelensky and Europe appear to think time favors Ukraine. I have no idea. The reporting from the front is so unreliable that I'm not sure anyone can anticipate what will be happening six months from now.

But I think it's fair to say Trump was played like a fiddle by BOTH Putin AND Zelensky/the EU within the past five days, which is extraordinarily disturbing for our role as a major player in the world going forward.
 
wmheel1287 said:
Yeah, and when I agreed with my grandfather who had alzheimers that the cows were out there in the pasture and needed to be put away, I was totally 100% in belief of what I was saying. People placate blowhards. People particularly placate blowhards with power. People most certainly placate blowhards with power who are also riddled with dementia.

They are saying what Trump wants to hear because that's the only thing he doesn't lash out at.
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My takeaway from watching the group meeting was that the European leaders were using flattery in the attempt to get Trump on board with exercising Article 5 of NATO to guarantee security for Ukraine.

Were they successful ? I doubt it.
 
“…Trump confirmed that he excused himself toward the end of his meetings Monday with European leaders to call Russian President Vladimir Putin to update him on their peace talks and propose a meeting between Putin and Zelensky. Trump said he believes such a meeting has become possible because the two wartime leaders are perhaps “getting along a little better than I thought.”

While Trump said Putin “very happily” took his call, the U.S. president did not say how amenable Putin was to meeting with Zelensky. The Kremlin stopped short of backing that idea in remarks to the media Monday.

“It takes, in this case, two to tango,” Trump said. “They have to have somewhat of a relationship. Otherwise we’re just wasting a lot of time. I don’t want to be doing that.”

Trump said the United States would “find out” about Putin’s willingness to end the war in the coming days, but he said Zelensky also “has to show some flexibility.”

Trump has said he could join Zelensky and Putin for a three-way meeting if their one-on-one meeting goes well. But he continued to put the onus on them to resolve their war.

“They’re the ones that have to call the shots,” Trump told Fox. “We’re 7,000 miles away, in all fairness.”…”

 
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