Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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lawtig02 said:
The concern is that Putin also got what he wants -- no additional sanctions and the (putative) leader of the free world backing off the demand for a cease fire. I truly don't know who benefits from a delay in any meaningful peace negotiations. Putin clearly thinks Russia does. Zelensky and Europe appear to think time favors Ukraine. I have no idea. The reporting from the front is so unreliable that I'm not sure anyone can anticipate what will be happening six months from now.

But I think it's fair to say Trump was played like a fiddle by BOTH Putin AND Zelensky/the EU within the past five days, which is extraordinarily disturbing for our role as a major player in the world going forward.
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CFordUNC said:
KKKaroline is so much worse at this than Propaganda Barbie McEnany was.
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For Trump, no WH press secretary will be able to replace the Huckabeast ... she was the best spinner and liar.
 
nycfan said:


IMG_9021.jpeg
Happy To Help Narendra Modi GIF by GIPHY News
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This raises a good point. One of the lesser noticed implications of Trump's batshit stupid approach to the Russia war on Ukraine is that its ACTIVELY harming our relationship with the world's most populous nation, and a potential ally in the global game of chess that's in a critical moment right now. This is from a few months ago, and, because of the sanctions Leavitt is referencing, the issue is WAY more critical now than it was then --

www.nytimes.com

As Trump Crows Over Ending a Conflict, India’s Leaders Feel Betrayed

President Trump’s repeated descriptions of U.S. mediation efforts between India and Pakistan have hit sore spots in Indian politics.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

The unease led analysts aligned with the right-wing base of Prime Minister Narendra Modi to question India’s shift toward closer U.S. relations, describing Mr. Trump’s comments as a betrayal, whether they were a product of indifference to Indian concerns or unawareness of them.

* * *

Ms. Rao said that the American approach had complicated India’s decades of efforts to be viewed independently, not through the lens of conflict with Pakistan. India has reoriented its foreign policy to position itself as the United States’ key partner in the region, increasingly willing to play the role of counterweight to China, a country that has become Pakistan’s most powerful patron.

“India and Pakistan are being hyphenated once again,” Ms. Rao said. “India had genuinely felt that we had broken free of that hyphenation and that Pakistan had kind of receded into the shadows as far as the U.S. was concerned.”

* * *

A senior Indian official said that India, before hitting Pakistan, had been in communication with the Trump administration about its intent to do so, and that it had briefed Mr. Trump’s advisers after the initial strikes.

Once the conflict escalated, the official said, Mr. Vance called Mr. Modi to share the U.S. concern about “a high probability of a dramatic escalation of violence.”

Mr. Modi listened, but India made its own decision to end the fighting, the official said, after another night of clashes in which Indian forces struck several Pakistani bases. Pakistan requested a direct call to discuss arrangements for a cease-fire, the official said.

While many commentators close to Mr. Modi’s support base saw the American messaging around the truce as “treachery,” other observers said India had been too optimistic to expect unequivocal support from Washington and a full American divorce from Pakistan.
 
CFordUNC said:
KKKaroline is so much worse at this than Propaganda Barbie McEnany was.
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UNCMSinLS said:
Ease up, CFord. She's trying to get the noble peace prize for the American Hilter with those lips and the way they move.
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And, in KKKaroline's defense, she is only 27. McEnany has a decade on her. She has some time to improve before being put out to pasture at foxnews.
 
lawtig02 said:
The concern is that Putin also got what he wants -- no additional sanctions and the (putative) leader of the free world backing off the demand for a cease fire. I truly don't know who benefits from a delay in any meaningful peace negotiations. Putin clearly thinks Russia does. Zelensky and Europe appear to think time favors Ukraine. I have no idea. The reporting from the front is so unreliable that I'm not sure anyone can anticipate what will be happening six months from now.

But I think it's fair to say Trump was played like a fiddle by BOTH Putin AND Zelensky/the EU within the past five days, which is extraordinarily disturbing for our role as a major player in the world going forward.
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Let's start with what is obvious...there will be no substantive cease-fire between Russia and Ukraine because their respective conditions for one are simply too far apart. Russia will only accept a ceasefire Ukraine concedes large amounts of land and promises to essentially be a Russian vassal state. Ukraine will only accept a ceasefire in which Russia is prepared to exit Ukraine and to allow Ukraine to rebuild its infrastructure and its military. Neither side is going to accept the terms of the other and neither side actually believes a substantive cease-fire will occur.

Putin came to ensure Trump's fealty to Putin and the Russian view of the war. He's aware of his need to occasionally give Trump a tv moment where Trump gets to parade around and act all "world leadery" and knows that when he gives Trump those moments, Trump is more likely to stand by him in rejecting assistance to Ukraine. IMHO, this was nothing more for Putin than a "social call" to butter Trump up to be is representative in the west and to remind Trump was Putin wants from him.

For the Euro leaders, I don't think Trump was the target of their visit at all. Their target was much more our Congress who will be the ones to determine whether the US provides further aid to Ukraine or tries to stand in the way of Euro aid to Ukraine. They know that Trump is a lost cause, his admiration for autocratic dictators like Putin is too deep and too solidified for him to actively take Ukraine's position. But this trip allowed Ukraine and the other Euro leaders to get in front of the American press to state their case and to push support of Ukraine, either directly or indirectly.

I'm guessing both sides largely got what they wanted from the discussions, although I don't think the situation between Ukraine and Russia changed much as a result.
 
BlueSteel said:
To all the MAGA faithful jerking off out there over Trump's self-claimed "wins"...
Go ahead and spank it while you can. Trump may think he can rewrite history now. Once he kicks the bucket, however, the world will quickly write it back as it actually happened, not how Trump wants to say it was. It'll be easy, actually. We've got all the receipts.
In the meantime, don't get any lube on your trousers.
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I'm not taking a victory lap on behalf of Trump nor engaging in the activities referenced in your post. A true peace deal with Putin will be extremely difficult. I still see no downside in taking this process out as far as possible in order to secure from Putin his best and final offer. Ukraine and the Western Powers can then make an informed decision about whether to accept Russia's offer or to go to secondary sanctions and continued funding of this conflict.
 
Ramrouser said:
I'm not taking a victory lap on behalf of Trump nor engaging in the activities referenced in your post. A true peace deal with Putin will be extremely difficult. I still see no downside in taking this process out as far as possible in order to secure from Putin his best and final offer. Ukraine and the Western Powers can then make an informed decision about whether to accept Russia's offer or to go to secondary sanctions and continued funding of this conflict.
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Uh, we got Putin's best and final offer 2+ years ago. Biden didn't make a dent. Trump hasn't made a dent. The goal can't be to move Putin. He won't move, and there's nothing Russians or anyone else can do to make him move. Other than threatening his power. And that's the one thing Trump has refused to do.
 
Ramrouser said:
I'm not taking a victory lap on behalf of Trump nor engaging in the activities referenced in your post. A true peace deal with Putin will be extremely difficult. I still see no downside in taking this process out as far as possible in order to secure from Putin his best and final offer. Ukraine and the Western Powers can then make an informed decision about whether to accept Russia's offer or to go to secondary sanctions and continued funding of this conflict.
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Do you support the European leaders saying any "peace agreement" should include a commitment from Trump to support an Article 5 commitment to enforce and protect Ukraine security should Putin violate any agreement and continue his grab Ukraine territory or territory in any NATO countries ?
 
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