Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies: 4K
  • Views: 174K
  • Politics 
Man. This is rough. I know we've been heading down this path for a while now but I think that history will look back on this betrayal of Ukraine as the formal end of Pax Americana and the United States' global leadership and our dominance economically, militarily, culturally for almost 8 decades. It's a bitter pill to swallow watching the U.S. completely sell out an ally and capitulate to Russia, and even more bitter to watch us needlessly and almost effortlessly forfeit our role atop the global hierarchy.
 
BlueSmoke said:
We will soon see. It won't take long for Ukraine to either reject or accept the surrender forced upon them. Then we will know the true state of the situation. I am betting that they are in a better position to survive without U.S. aid then many think. Russia's military is pretty feable at this point. Their marginal land advances can be misleading.
Click to expand...
I hope they tell Trump and Putin to eat shit and die, then Europe steps in with the resources to keep up the fight.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I think the only reason they would consider agreeing to this is to stop having their people killed and because they are afraid that they are going to lose even more if the war goes on. Not saying now is that time for them sometimes you have to cut your losses.
Click to expand...
If Mexico invaded and occupied Texas, and Texans were dying, and the US was continuing to fight for our freedom and our fellow Americans, at what point would you say the US should cut our losses and let Mexico have Texas?
 
This is beginning to look more and more like Munich. The French, British and Germans decided the fate of Czechoslovakia without that country’s input. We all know how that worked out.
 
CFordUNC said:
Very few things shock and surprise me anymore, but I'll be forever shocked by the American Right's surrender to Russia. Would have never in a million years believed it.
Click to expand...
It has never been about anything but white identity politics from the American right. I know you once believed otherwise, but I suspect you've seen the light. Why would working class white people react so strongly to "socialism"? Because MLK was a communist and a socialist, according to them. The Civil Rights Movement was communism.
 
CFordUNC said:
Very few things shock and surprise me anymore, but I'll be forever shocked by the American Right's surrender to Russia. Would have never in a million years believed it.
Click to expand...
Considering the rhetoric of the Reagan years, I agree 100%. How times have changed. But, people who are only involved for financial gain will make a deal with the devil.
 
Callatoroy said:
You obviously don't speak Trump. That isn't what he meant but is a great example of how and why he is such a horrid speaker. He just has an inability and lack of awareness to think how his comments are going to be perceived. Either that or he just doesn't give a fuck and if its that, he makes things so much harder on himself than he needs to.
Click to expand...
I thought people voted for him because he says what he means. If he doesn't mean what he says, how is anyone to know if he really is bringing down egg prices or releasing his beautiful health care plan in 2 weeks? How is putin supposed to know? How are you?
 
CFordUNC said:
Very few things shock and surprise me anymore, but I'll be forever shocked by the American Right's surrender to Russia. Would have never in a million years believed it.
Click to expand...
There was an earthquake reported in Simi Valley CA centered about 6 ft below the surface. It was discovered that it wasn't an actual earthquake, but Reagan rolling over in his grave.
 
BillOfRights said:
There was an earthquake reported in Simi Valley CA centered about 6 ft below the surface. It was discovered that it wasn't an actual earthquake, but Reagan rolling over in his grave.
Click to expand...
There are a lot of Republican leaders from the past rolling over in their graves. It’s a good thing they are dead, because if they were alive and saw the current state of the Republican Party it would kill them.
 
Mundial said:
I disagree in that (i) Putin will have been rewarded by Trump for this invasion, (ii) there is a significant chance that he will feel emboldened by Trump's public declaration that the US will do nothing if Europe is attacked, (iii) such aggression directly threatens Europe and in my view the UK and (iv) the combined armies of Germany, France, the UK, and Poland (not to mention the rest of NATO other than the US) would be able to crush and drive out Russia from Ukranian territory in a matter of weeks.

So I think that there is a chance that you are wrong in that Europe may determine that it faces an existential crisis and act accordingly just like Israel does in the middle east when facing such threats except that the combined European armies are much more powerful.

So something along the lines of such European alliance forcing Russia out and restoring Ukraine's borders and establishing a DMZ along the border akin to North/South Korea. In my view they possibly seize/blockage Kaliningrad as an unacceptable security risk behind the line. Russia would then have to decide if nuclear escalation is worth it. I think it is improbable given how much Putin and his oligarchs love money and the good life.
Click to expand...

Europe has an aging population. They're starved of energy too. When this entire conflict ends (and it will), they'll return to buying Russian energy because what other option do they have? What most people don't realize about the fights that have been raging the last decade or more, from Libya, to Israel, to Syria, to Ukraine, its ALL ABOUT ENERGY and who controls the pipelines. Plus its about who de facto controls the governments who control the pipelines. Its really not ideological, the true existential crisis going on has to do with long-term European energy security and the demographic crisis on the continent. European (especially German) industry faces a very bleak future and will likely take more economic blows before this all settles. So why are you raging about how NATO is out to crush Russia? Russia is a reality these countries have to live with, what version of Russia will they be is the question.

Russia also has major demographic problems, and its what will limit further Russian expansionism into Europe. Whenever this war comes to an end, Russia's security concerns will logically turn towards their South and a bit to their East. This Russia-China alliance is temporarily convenient however Russia isn't going to enjoy being a junior partner to a Chinese superpower. Furthermore, Turkey and Iran present more strategic threats to Russia than Europe will, especially given the only population in Russia procreating in substantial numbers are all Muslim. Russia has fought historically almost as many wars against the Turks/Ottomans and the Persians than they have with the Europeans. This becomes more relevant too given the Chinese-Iranian oil deal, Russia needs to be very weary about how much of that Chinese money the Iranians will be pumping into its own military for the foreseeable future.
 
CFordUNC said:
Man. This is rough. I know we've been heading down this path for a while now but I think that history will look back on this betrayal of Ukraine as the formal end of Pax Americana and the United States' global leadership and our dominance economically, militarily, culturally for almost 8 decades. It's a bitter pill to swallow watching the U.S. completely sell out an ally and capitulate to Russia, and even more bitter to watch us needlessly and almost effortlessly forfeit our role atop the global hierarchy.
Click to expand...
Quit bloviating and spouting hollow rhetoric. Your recollection of recent history is dogshit. Obama was feckless in dealing with Putin and even mocked Romney for warning about Putin. He sent MREs and blankets when Russia took crimea. Crickets from Ford then. Where was your faux outrage? Putin doesn’t move an inch with trump in office but as soon as he is out he invades a second time because pudding eating Joe has less of a spine than obama. He had 3 fucking years to do something but couldn’t find the light switch to get out of the basement. He was so useless he allowed Europe to sit back while we shouldered most of the support. Now in less than a month trump has Russia’s attention to cut a deal to end the war and you, like the idiot you are want to bitch about abandoning a country that was a fringe ally, rooted in corruption while self fellating during the last 3 years without a care in the world of brokering peace.

I would really love to know how you think it should be handled. Offer some credible opinion rather than your Kamala sounding fake indignation. Man the fuck up and tell me what trump should do and why you give vegetable Joe a pass for being the world’s bitch and military ATM. Your party’s leadership on Russia has been completely absent while Putin made Obama and Joe his prison bitches.
 
Patb78 said:
There are a lot of Republican leaders from the past rolling over in their graves. It’s a good thing they are dead, because if they were alive and saw the current state of the Republican Party it would kill them.
Click to expand...
The current state of the Republican is as follows:

POTUS - yep
House - yep
Senate - yep
SCOTUS - overwhelming majority
Majority of governorships - yep

I think they would be good.
 
BillOfRights said:
If Mexico invaded and occupied Texas, and Texans were dying, and the US was continuing to fight for our freedom and our fellow Americans, at what point would you say the US should cut our losses and let Mexico have Texas?
Click to expand...
Right about the time we decided we weren't able to get it back. Its the same calculation Mexico made when they let us have Texas.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top