Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing, I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press,” not said by Trump while not on television in 2016.

Vince Vaughn GIF
 
ZenMode said:
Yes, I realize that not being able to establish something is not the same as saying it didn't happen.

At this point in time, and barring any additional information in the future, we should not believe that Trump or his campaign conspired/coordinated with Russia, unless you believe that you know more than the US government.
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I mean, he literally asked Russia to intervene on his behalf on national television during the 2016 campaign, and there was the phone call to Zelenskyy before the 2020 campaign in which he asked Zelenskyy to investigate his top challenger for the 2020 race.

But yeah, he’s clearly earned the benefit of the doubt here.
 
ZenMode said:
Either facts and evidence matter or they don't. The most powerful investigative body on the planet said they could not establish that the Trump campaign conspired with Russia.
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they said that they couldn't establish grounds for criminal conspiracy or collusion charges.

all of the communications and contacts make it pretty damn crystal clear that the trump campaign did indeed "work with" the russians to some degree.
 
Calheel said:
That tweet is not nearly enough groveling for Trump. Z saying:

Our meeting in Washington, at the White House on Friday, did not go the way it was supposed to be. It is regrettable that it happened this way. It is time to make things right. We would like future cooperation and communication to be constructive.

That is not an apology. At least not one that should move the needle for Trump. That is essentially Z blaming Trump for the issue without directly saying that
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Oh this is just the beginning for Z's apology to Trump. Lots more to follow as his situation becomes more and more desperate.
 
SnoopRob said:
Indians wear suits and ties, but I wouldn't call them "Indian dress". "Indian dress" is much more stuff like lungis and saris and salwars.
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Of course. I meant that Indians are indeed comfortable wearing suits. It's not like Gandhi visits the White House. Every single person in the Indian government is fully comfortable in a suit, having worn them to work for years and years.

The point is that Trump obviously didn't ask Modi to wear a suit, because he obviously doesn't actually care about the suit.
 
Geisterfahrer said:
How can you type any of that and live with knowing what a brainwashed sad coward you are.
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Its what I love about this board. Not one reason as to why you might disagree, just that its wrong in the form of personal attack. Do you have an original thought on why you disagree or do you disagree for sport.
 
ZenMode said:
Yes, I realize that not being able to establish something is not the same as saying it didn't happen.

At this point in time, and barring any additional information in the future, we should not believe that Trump or his campaign conspired/coordinated with Russia, unless you believe that you know more than the US government.
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No, I only have to know more than you. Because you are misinterpreting the Mueller Report. Again, why do you argue law with me? It never works out for you. It never will work out for you. It's like trying to argue about football strategy with an NFL head coach. You can't win that discussion because you are at such a structural disadvantage.
 
superrific said:
No, I only have to know more than you. Because you are misinterpreting the Mueller Report. Again, why do you argue law with me? It never works out for you. It never will work out for you. It's like trying to argue about football strategy with an NFL head coach. You can't win that discussion because you are at such a structural disadvantage.
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Your subjective views of me don't change the fact that, as of now, and if facts and evidence matter, we shouldn't believe that Trump conspired with Russia to interfere in the 2016 election.

Again, if you believe he/they did, then you must also believe that you have access to more information/evidence than the US government.
 
Ramrouser said:
Oh this is just the beginning for Z's apology to Trump. Lots more to follow as his situation becomes more and more desperate.
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Brother, don't hold your breath that any head of state of any country is ever going to publicly apologize to any head of state of any other country.
 
lawtig02 said:
That definitely worked in February 2022.

www.forbes.com

Anticipated Russian Invasion Creates Crisis For U.S. Companies In Ukraine

The anticipated invasion of Ukraine by Russia has created a crisis for U.S. companies with offices or employees in that country. Protecting their staff and assets — or moving them out of Ukraine as soon as possible — has become a top priority for business leaders.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
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Apples and oranges. We would have not only people but US owned infrastructure in place all over the country. Not just people in an office building that can be evacuated in 48 hrs. The two situations not even remotely the same.
 
superrific said:
Of course. I meant that Indians are indeed comfortable wearing suits. It's not like Gandhi visits the White House. Every single person in the Indian government is fully comfortable in a suit, having worn them to work for years and years.

The point is that Trump obviously didn't ask Modi to wear a suit, because he obviously doesn't actually care about the suit.
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Maybe Ukranians have a secret cultural inclination for wearing onesies?
 
Callatoroy said:
Apples and oranges. We would have not only people but US owned infrastructure in place all over the country. Not just people in an office building that can be evacuated in 48 hrs. The two situations not even remotely the same.
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You mean except for the hope Putin would not attack US business interests in Ukraine?
 
CFordUNC said:
Brother, don't hold your breath that any head of state of any country is ever going to publicly apologize to any head of state of any other country.
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Obama went on an apology tour - apologizing to every Muslim country he could find - expressing how sorry he was for the "sins" of the US. You must remember that since you were still a conservative at the time.:)
 
4thgenheel said:
they said that they couldn't establish grounds for criminal conspiracy or collusion charges.

all of the communications and contacts make it pretty damn crystal clear that the trump campaign did indeed "work with" the russians to some degree.
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I agree that there was a lot of contact between the Trump campaign and Russians. There are lots of Russians in Russia and I'd bet the life of everyone in my family that only a very small number was involved in the hacking/releasing of Dem/DNC emails. In other words, it's not inherently illegal or conspiratorial to interact with Russians. Trump & Co. could meet and talk to nearly every person in Russia and never come across someone who was involved in the hacking.

The hacking and social media events were what the conspiracy claims revolved around.
 
ZenMode said:
I agree that there was a lot of contact between the Trump campaign and Russians. There are lots of Russians in Russia and I'd bet the life of everyone in my family that only a very small number was involved in the hacking/releasing of Dem/DNC emails. In other words, it's not inherently illegal or conspiratorial to interact with Russians. Trump & Co. could meet and talk to nearly every person in Russia and never come across someone who was involved in the hacking.

The hacking and social media events were what the conspiracy claims revolved around.
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Well, the ones Trump & Co met and talked with were members of the Russian government; they were in fact part of the Russian intelligence apparatus; and they were indicted by Mueller.

This nonsense about interacting with everyone in Russia is the worst faith argument I've ever seen,.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
Without further military aid or US/NATO boots in Ukraine, why would Putin stop short of his goal? No American companies are going to go there, build infrastructure and extract valuable resources without full confidence Putin won’t kill or kidnap them, steal equipment or the mined minerals.
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Will probably have US resources working within 6 months.
 
Ramrouser said:
Obama went on an apology tour - apologizing to every Muslim country he could find - expressing how sorry he was for the "sins" of the US. You must remember that since you were still a conservative at the time.:)
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Swing and a miss again, hoss. Go read the transcripts of those speeches that Obama gave in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and France. Not once was the word 'apologize' in those speeches. His speeches in the Middle East acknowledged that "there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive.” But in a speech in France- the one to which my preferred 2012 presidential candidate Mitt Romney referenced in a debate with Obama- Obama called out Europeans for an “anti-Americanism that is at once casual but can also be insidious. Instead of recognizing the good that America so often does in the world, there have been times where Europeans choose to blame America for much of what’s bad.”

Look, man, far be it from me to advise an old man on anything, but you really can just take an extra 30-60 seconds to fact check yourself before posting something on this board that you know is going to get fact-checked. It would save you a lot of humiliation, if that's even something you wish to avoid. Hard to tell.
 
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