Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”
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theel4life
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As background, no one gave away Crimea. Russia took it by force:
“… After the annexation, fighting broke out in eastern Ukraine between pro-Kremlin militias and Kyiv’s forces. Moscow threw its weight behind the insurgents, even though it denied supporting them with troops and weapons. There was abundant evidence to the contrary, including a Dutch court’s finding that a Russia-supplied air defense system shot down a Malaysia Airlines passenger jet over eastern Ukraine in July 2014, killing all 298 people aboard.
Russian hard-liners later criticized Putin for failing to capture all of Ukraine that year, arguing it was easily possible at a time when the government in Kyiv was in disarray and its military in shambles.
The fighting in eastern Ukraine continued, on and off, until February 2022, when Putin launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine.
… By the time Russia annexed it in 2014, it had been within Ukraine for 60 years and was part of the country’s identity.…”
What to know about Crimea, the Black Sea peninsula seized by Russia from Ukraine over a decade ago
Russia’s illegal seizure of the Crimean Peninsula from Ukraine in 2014 was quick and bloodless, and it sent Moscow’s relations with the West into a downward spiral unseen since the Cold War.
apnews.com
lawtig02
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Two things appear to be defining this charade --
1. Putin WILL NOT compromise unless he has absolutely no other choice. He never has. He never will. He doesn't want peace (and I truly can't believe Trump is stupid enough to think he does). There will never be a breakthrough in these negotiations if they depend on Putin making voluntary concessions.
2. Trump does not care what actually happens. All he cares about is being able to SAY he did something great. That's what he's done with each of the other "six wars" he claims to have solved. His story about each of them is vastly different from reality, but he couldn't care less. All he wants is to be able to say he solved wars, whether he did or not.
The only way for both of those egos to be satisfied is for Ukraine to capitulate. And sadly, it's entirely up to our former European friends to prevent that from happening.
1. Putin WILL NOT compromise unless he has absolutely no other choice. He never has. He never will. He doesn't want peace (and I truly can't believe Trump is stupid enough to think he does). There will never be a breakthrough in these negotiations if they depend on Putin making voluntary concessions.
2. Trump does not care what actually happens. All he cares about is being able to SAY he did something great. That's what he's done with each of the other "six wars" he claims to have solved. His story about each of them is vastly different from reality, but he couldn't care less. All he wants is to be able to say he solved wars, whether he did or not.
The only way for both of those egos to be satisfied is for Ukraine to capitulate. And sadly, it's entirely up to our former European friends to prevent that from happening.
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As background, no one gave away Crimea. Russia took it by force:
“… After the annexation, fighting broke out in eastern Ukraine between pro-Kremlin militias and Kyiv’s forces. Moscow threw its weight behind the insurgents, even though it denied supporting them with troops and weapons. There was abundant evidence to the contrary, including a Dutch court’s finding that a Russia-supplied air defense system shot down a Malaysia Airlines passenger jet over eastern Ukraine in July 2014, killing all 298 people aboard.
Russian hard-liners later criticized Putin for failing to capture all of Ukraine that year, arguing it was easily possible at a time when the government in Kyiv was in disarray and its military in shambles.
The fighting in eastern Ukraine continued, on and off, until February 2022, when Putin launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine.
… By the time Russia annexed it in 2014, it had been within Ukraine for 60 years and was part of the country’s identity.…”
What to know about Crimea, the Black Sea peninsula seized by Russia from Ukraine over a decade ago
Russia’s illegal seizure of the Crimean Peninsula from Ukraine in 2014 was quick and bloodless, and it sent Moscow’s relations with the West into a downward spiral unseen since the Cold War.
Trump: “… they wanted Crimea back. That was given. Not a shot fired by President Obama in perhaps the worst real estate deal I’ve ever seen.
There’s been a couple of’em. I would say the Gaza Strip is a pretty bad one too, given by Israel so they’d have peace. So they gave away a big percentage of their ocean-front property in order to have peace. How does that work out? Uhhh not so good.
And uh Crimea is the uh apple of Ukraine, I mean, it’s so beautiful and uh Obama gave it away. Nobody ever mentions that. If I did that the fake news would be after they would be writing about me day and night for years. He gave it away. He demanded that they let it go and Russia came in and took it just took it like from like candy from a baby.
And it was really Obama’s, really, that was pure and simple Obama’s fault. What a terrible thing he did to them, that country. And so they lost their heart, they lost their heart and soul of the Ukraine 14 years ago whatever it might be and uhhh it was so unnecessary to do that, and that’s when it really began, when Obama gave it away.”
[I added paragraph breaks for readability but no pause was actually taken … I also apply punctuation not really supported by his stream of consciousness]
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"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
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Mertz: "The path is open. You opened it on Friday." he said "but now the way is open for complicated negotiations."
Stubb: "I think in the past two weeks we've probably had more progress in ending this war than we have in the past three and a half years."
Starmer: "Nobody has been able to bring it to this point."
Meloni: "Something has changed thanks to you."
Hmm, the European leaders sound a lot like that Ramrouser character on Friday when he opined that it was a victory for Putin to come to Alaska to start the process. Trump got the ball rolling on this complicated process. Bill Maher even noted on Friday that the visuals for the US were great with Putin walking down the red carpet flanked by fighter jets with the B-2 flying above his head. "Putin looked like Trump's golf caddy at half his height" smiling nervously in the presence of Trump.
It was a remarkable gathering of the Western powers with the US in the lead. The unity was remarkable and had to be noticed by Putin. The tariff negotiations, as the leaders got to know each other, really helped in cementing their relationships. The bonds between the leaders was so great that the meeting with the European leaders resembled a Trump cabinet meeting.
Stubb: "I think in the past two weeks we've probably had more progress in ending this war than we have in the past three and a half years."
Starmer: "Nobody has been able to bring it to this point."
Meloni: "Something has changed thanks to you."
Hmm, the European leaders sound a lot like that Ramrouser character on Friday when he opined that it was a victory for Putin to come to Alaska to start the process. Trump got the ball rolling on this complicated process. Bill Maher even noted on Friday that the visuals for the US were great with Putin walking down the red carpet flanked by fighter jets with the B-2 flying above his head. "Putin looked like Trump's golf caddy at half his height" smiling nervously in the presence of Trump.
It was a remarkable gathering of the Western powers with the US in the lead. The unity was remarkable and had to be noticed by Putin. The tariff negotiations, as the leaders got to know each other, really helped in cementing their relationships. The bonds between the leaders was so great that the meeting with the European leaders resembled a Trump cabinet meeting.
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“You know when Biden gave them a hundred billion dollars right up front I don’t give’em anything you know I don’t know if you know it but since I’ve been there we don’t pay. First of all I’ve made a deal to take rare earths that’s much more than the equivalent of 350 billion that Biden uh that got away because I felt so foolish it was so stupid what he did and I was able to make a deal with Ukraine and they were very nice and they have great rare earths they’re among the best in the world and uh we took much more than the 350 billion and they were great about it so we got that you know handled.”
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lmmfao
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MOUNTAINH33L
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lawtig02
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Two options --
1. They know the only way to keep Trump even remotely engaged is to flatter him endlessly, regardless of whether the flattery has merit.
2. They're being sincere.
If it's #2, surely we should see some evidence that the conflict is closer to a resolution than it was two weeks ago. Could you please help us identify that evidence? Has Putin compromised on any of his demands? Has he stopped bombing apartment buildings in Ukraine's cities? Has he committed to do ANYTHING?
I would love for this conflict to be resolved. But until I see some evidence that Russia will do something -- ANYTHING -- to make that happen, I'm going with #1, and I'll consider everyone who thinks it's #2 to be a gullible rube.
To all the MAGA faithful jerking off out there over Trump's self-claimed "wins"...
Go ahead and spank it while you can. Trump may think he can rewrite history now. Once he kicks the bucket, however, the world will quickly write it back as it actually happened, not how Trump wants to say it was. It'll be easy, actually. We've got all the receipts.
In the meantime, don't get any lube on your trousers.
lawtig02
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Agree, if you mean long term peace. I could see something like Israel-Gaza, which I think is one of the wars Trump claims to have resolved. A tentative, broad-strokes deal subject to an infinite number of issues that still need to be resolved. That won't happen because (a) Trump doesn't give a shit about the details, and (b) Putin doesn't want peace. So just like in Gaza, Russia will start bombing and attacking Ukraine again.
And all the while, Trump will be saying he solved SEVEN wars, and will continue calling the PM of Norway to demand the Nobel Peace Prize.
1moretimeagain
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Bill Maher did not say that
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lolololol it was probably A.I. Bill Maher on Libs of TikTok and as usual the aroused ram is too stupid to realize that his main source of “news” is playing him like a banjo in Deliverance.
Seriously, ramrouser, do you never get tired of people repeatedly showing you what a stupid and gullible old goober you are? My God, man, have some damn pride just one time.