Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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This raises a good point. One of the lesser noticed implications of Trump's batshit stupid approach to the Russia war on Ukraine is that its ACTIVELY harming our relationship with the world's most populous nation, and a potential ally in the global game of chess that's in a critical moment right now. This is from a few months ago, and, because of the sanctions Leavitt is referencing, the issue is WAY more critical now than it was then --


The unease led analysts aligned with the right-wing base of Prime Minister Narendra Modi to question India’s shift toward closer U.S. relations, describing Mr. Trump’s comments as a betrayal, whether they were a product of indifference to Indian concerns or unawareness of them.

* * *

Ms. Rao said that the American approach had complicated India’s decades of efforts to be viewed independently, not through the lens of conflict with Pakistan. India has reoriented its foreign policy to position itself as the United States’ key partner in the region, increasingly willing to play the role of counterweight to China, a country that has become Pakistan’s most powerful patron.

“India and Pakistan are being hyphenated once again,” Ms. Rao said. “India had genuinely felt that we had broken free of that hyphenation and that Pakistan had kind of receded into the shadows as far as the U.S. was concerned.”

* * *

A senior Indian official said that India, before hitting Pakistan, had been in communication with the Trump administration about its intent to do so, and that it had briefed Mr. Trump’s advisers after the initial strikes.

Once the conflict escalated, the official said, Mr. Vance called Mr. Modi to share the U.S. concern about “a high probability of a dramatic escalation of violence.”

Mr. Modi listened, but India made its own decision to end the fighting, the official said, after another night of clashes in which Indian forces struck several Pakistani bases. Pakistan requested a direct call to discuss arrangements for a cease-fire, the official said.

While many commentators close to Mr. Modi’s support base saw the American messaging around the truce as “treachery,” other observers said India had been too optimistic to expect unequivocal support from Washington and a full American divorce from Pakistan.
 
The concern is that Putin also got what he wants -- no additional sanctions and the (putative) leader of the free world backing off the demand for a cease fire. I truly don't know who benefits from a delay in any meaningful peace negotiations. Putin clearly thinks Russia does. Zelensky and Europe appear to think time favors Ukraine. I have no idea. The reporting from the front is so unreliable that I'm not sure anyone can anticipate what will be happening six months from now.

But I think it's fair to say Trump was played like a fiddle by BOTH Putin AND Zelensky/the EU within the past five days, which is extraordinarily disturbing for our role as a major player in the world going forward.
Let's start with what is obvious...there will be no substantive cease-fire between Russia and Ukraine because their respective conditions for one are simply too far apart. Russia will only accept a ceasefire Ukraine concedes large amounts of land and promises to essentially be a Russian vassal state. Ukraine will only accept a ceasefire in which Russia is prepared to exit Ukraine and to allow Ukraine to rebuild its infrastructure and its military. Neither side is going to accept the terms of the other and neither side actually believes a substantive cease-fire will occur.

Putin came to ensure Trump's fealty to Putin and the Russian view of the war. He's aware of his need to occasionally give Trump a tv moment where Trump gets to parade around and act all "world leadery" and knows that when he gives Trump those moments, Trump is more likely to stand by him in rejecting assistance to Ukraine. IMHO, this was nothing more for Putin than a "social call" to butter Trump up to be is representative in the west and to remind Trump was Putin wants from him.

For the Euro leaders, I don't think Trump was the target of their visit at all. Their target was much more our Congress who will be the ones to determine whether the US provides further aid to Ukraine or tries to stand in the way of Euro aid to Ukraine. They know that Trump is a lost cause, his admiration for autocratic dictators like Putin is too deep and too solidified for him to actively take Ukraine's position. But this trip allowed Ukraine and the other Euro leaders to get in front of the American press to state their case and to push support of Ukraine, either directly or indirectly.

I'm guessing both sides largely got what they wanted from the discussions, although I don't think the situation between Ukraine and Russia changed much as a result.
 
To all the MAGA faithful jerking off out there over Trump's self-claimed "wins"...
Go ahead and spank it while you can. Trump may think he can rewrite history now. Once he kicks the bucket, however, the world will quickly write it back as it actually happened, not how Trump wants to say it was. It'll be easy, actually. We've got all the receipts.
In the meantime, don't get any lube on your trousers.
I'm not taking a victory lap on behalf of Trump nor engaging in the activities referenced in your post. A true peace deal with Putin will be extremely difficult. I still see no downside in taking this process out as far as possible in order to secure from Putin his best and final offer. Ukraine and the Western Powers can then make an informed decision about whether to accept Russia's offer or to go to secondary sanctions and continued funding of this conflict.
 
I'm not taking a victory lap on behalf of Trump nor engaging in the activities referenced in your post. A true peace deal with Putin will be extremely difficult. I still see no downside in taking this process out as far as possible in order to secure from Putin his best and final offer. Ukraine and the Western Powers can then make an informed decision about whether to accept Russia's offer or to go to secondary sanctions and continued funding of this conflict.
Uh, we got Putin's best and final offer 2+ years ago. Biden didn't make a dent. Trump hasn't made a dent. The goal can't be to move Putin. He won't move, and there's nothing Russians or anyone else can do to make him move. Other than threatening his power. And that's the one thing Trump has refused to do.
 
I'm not taking a victory lap on behalf of Trump nor engaging in the activities referenced in your post. A true peace deal with Putin will be extremely difficult. I still see no downside in taking this process out as far as possible in order to secure from Putin his best and final offer. Ukraine and the Western Powers can then make an informed decision about whether to accept Russia's offer or to go to secondary sanctions and continued funding of this conflict.
Do you support the European leaders saying any "peace agreement" should include a commitment from Trump to support an Article 5 commitment to enforce and protect Ukraine security should Putin violate any agreement and continue his grab Ukraine territory or territory in any NATO countries ?
 
I'm not taking a victory lap on behalf of Trump nor engaging in the activities referenced in your post. A true peace deal with Putin will be extremely difficult. I still see no downside in taking this process out as far as possible in order to secure from Putin his best and final offer. Ukraine and the Western Powers can then make an informed decision about whether to accept Russia's offer or to go to secondary sanctions and continued funding of this conflict.
If you want to get Putin's best and final offer, then don't have him talk to Trump. All Putin has to do is whisper in Trump's ear and the American's knees go weak.

Before Alaska, Trump seemed on board with the need for a cease-fire during negotiations. That's the only way a peace agreement can really work. Otherwise, the negotiators have to work against a changing battlefield situation. What if they agree on a "land swap" except then either Russia or Ukraine make military gains in some of those areas. More importantly, without a cease-fire, there's no way to ensure that the peace talks are remotely in good faith. Dictators often use negotiations as filibusters.

But then Putin said, nah, no cease fire, just a peace plan. Well, as everyone has noted, that just plays into Putin's hands. It means that he can send negotiators to dick around in bad faith, while Putin keeps pressing on Ukraine militarily. More deaths, more casualties, more fighting, more losses.

Is this a situation where you are trolling, or do you genuinely not understand the parameters of conflict negotiation.
 
Maybe have a paralegal go back and watch the episode for you.
He was very complimentary to Trump to the chagrin of Molly Jong-Fast - who largely echoed what is being said here.

Said it was a "zombie lie" to continue stating that Trump was Putin's bitch.
Said visuals in Alaska were great in that Putin was half of Trump's size and looked like his caddy.
Mentioned Putin nervously smiling.
Cut off Molly when she tried to criticize Trump for clapping for Putin on the red carpet - telling her to knock off that "crap" since it reminded him of Republicans criticizing Obama for his tan suit.

I watched the episode - doubt you did.
 
I'm not taking a victory lap on behalf of Trump nor engaging in the activities referenced in your post. A true peace deal with Putin will be extremely difficult. I still see no downside in taking this process out as far as possible in order to secure from Putin his best and final offer. Ukraine and the Western Powers can then make an informed decision about whether to accept Russia's offer or to go to secondary sanctions and continued funding of this conflict.
Serious question. Why did Trump say that none of the "six wars" he's already "resolved" required a ceasefire, when:

  • India-Pakistan is nothing but a ceasefire, as Trump himself acknowledged
  • Israel-Iran is nothing but a ceasefire, as Trump himself acknowledged
  • DRC-Rwanda is nothing but (an extremely tenuous and unenforceable) ceasefire, as Trump himself acknowledged
  • Cambodia-Thailand is nothing but a ceasefire, as Trump himself acknowledged
  • Kosovo-Serbia is nothing even resembling a ceasefire
  • Egypt-Ethiopia is not even the preface to the opening notes of a ceasefire

Why are you so gullible? Why do you keep believing this bullshit that you could know is bullshit if you would take the ten seconds to type a search question into Google?
 
lolololol it was probably A.I. Bill Maher on Libs of TikTok and as usual the aroused ram is too stupid to realize that his main source of “news” is playing him like a banjo in Deliverance.

Seriously, ramrouser, do you never get tired of people repeatedly showing you what a stupid and gullible old goober you are? My God, man, have some damn pride just one time.

Masochist.
 
Let's start with what is obvious...there will be no substantive cease-fire between Russia and Ukraine because their respective conditions for one are simply too far apart. Russia will only accept a ceasefire Ukraine concedes large amounts of land and promises to essentially be a Russian vassal state.
I’m not sure this is obvious. We can have educated guesses about what Putin wants, but he may accept something less.
 
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