Russia - US | Ukraine “peace negotiations”

[Bobfripp]

For all you Europe slurpers and Russian economy experts. Laughable anyone thought we should keep funding Ukraine because we could just wait Russia out as their economy is about to collapse. I said many times as long as the oil flows they can keep waging war.

Europe is bankrolling the Kremlin War machine: talk of unity is nonsense

Typical Pub, not providing a gift link ...

 

[Callatoroy]

Hey look, example # 100 of callatoroy trying to change the subject when he doesn't have an actual response. Who said anything about Biden? Why are you bringing up Biden? We're not arguing about anything Biden did and no one is defending what he did. The question is solely whether Trump upon taking office, is actually moving us towards a lasting peace and away from the possibility of WWIII.

if you don't think what happened in the Oval office was planned in advance, you're a fool. You think Vance just extemporaneously decided he didn't like the cut of Zelensky's jib and went off script? LOL. This is no conspiracy. Trump is a showman and reality TV star at heart, and he designed a made-for-TV moment. One that certainly did nothing to move us closer to peace. In fact it's Trump's own actions that have all the European leaders warning that we're headed for war.

Seems your ability to think has been affected by TDS. Trump is the ONLY one who has been trying to achieve peace and the ZZL has been ripping him and suckling Europe. And you are full of shit in your claim that nobody was defending Biden.

 

[Callatoroy]

Typical Pub, not providing a gift link ...

Only for you Dr Bob. Was in my Apple News so I didn’t have the paywall

Sir Keir Starmer and our European allies have issued a lot of brave words and fighting talk on protecting Ukraine and taking on Putin. “We are at a crossroads in history today,” Starmer said after the London summit, announcing a “coalition of the willing” to support Zelensky. “European unity is at an extremely high level not seen for a long time.” Is it, though?


The truth is that Europe last year paid far more money to Putin’s coffers in the form of oil and gas payments than it has given to the Ukrainians – and continues to do so. Europe today imports far more Russian liquefied natural gas, or LNG, from Russia than at the beginning of the war.


Most of the “shadow fleet” Russia uses to avoid sanctions are also owned by European, especially Greek, companies. Germany’s ascendant right wing AfD party is openly calling for a reopening of the surviving branch of Gazprom’s Nord-Stream 2 Baltic gas pipeline. Europe’s big talk of fighting Putin is hypocritical nonsense while they are bankrolling the Kremlin war machine.


Take sanctions. They were meant to bring the Russian economy to its knees and cripple Putin’s war machine. Perhaps they might have, if Europe had been willing to give up the fatal addiction to Russian energy that Trump repeatedly warned about back in 2017. Since the invasion the Kremlin has made close to a trillion dollars from oil and gas sales – much of it from European customers.


Even as bombs began to rain down on Kyiv, and as Brussels passed successive rafts of sanctions, Russian gas was never subject to any restrictions or penalties. It was Putin, not Brussels, who shut down gas exports through Nord Stream in July of 2022 in a crude attempt to squash Germany’s growing arms supplies.


Two months later saboteurs – definitively fingered by German and Danish investigators as Ukrainians – blew up three of the four undersea Nord Stream pipes. All of Europe was forced to scramble for alternative supplies of LNG from the US, Canada, Qatar and… Russia.


In 2024 EU member states bought €21.9 billion of Russian oil and gas – but only gave €18.7 billion in financial aid to Ukraine, according to a report by the Helsinki-based Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air. Russia is currently Europe’s number two supplier of LNG, after the US, up nearly 14 per cent in 2023.


Until January 1 of this year Gazprom was still supplying Hungary, the Czech Republic and Slovakia with natural gas through a pipeline that runs through Ukraine. Russia has continued to pay nearly a billion euros a year in transit fees for this gas to Kyiv through subsidiaries in Switzerland. Mind-bogglingly, that made Gazprom one of the largest taxpayers in Ukraine for the first three years of the war. Even after the shutdown of the trans-Ukrainian pipeline, though, Southeast and Central Europe continue to buy Russian gas indirectly through Turkey.


It’s a similar story with oil supplies. Foreign Secretary David Lammy announced the UK’s new sanctions package recently, claiming that we “continue to set the pace in ratcheting up the economic pressure on the Kremlin.” Among the measures were sanctions against 40 oil tankers involved in “pouring money into Putin’s war chest.”


But that’s a mere 40 of the over seven hundred tankers shipping Russian oil. One would be forgiven for imagining that these “sanctions” on Russian oil exports mean that it is somehow banned. It’s absolutely not. Instead, the US and EU have imposed a $60 per barrel price cap, versus a market rate for Urals Crude of $62 a barrel in December. And even that tiny difference is childishly easy to get around by accounting tricks.


Lammy also claims to have “with partners, already denied Putin access to $400 billion.” What weasel words. The UK holds next to no Russian Central Bank Assets directly. Most are in Belgium’s Euroclear system and the rest in the US – and there’s still no consensus on what to do with those funds or how to legally confiscate them.


But in any case the UK has little to do with this in principle or practice. And as Poland’s Prime Minister Donald Tusk admitted after the London meeting, there was “no unity” on seizing Russian assets in Europe. Though all leaders present agreed it was a good idea, he said that some countries “feared the consequences either for the euro or the banking system”.


The Poles, by the way, have also announced that they will form no part of the Starmer-Macron peacekeeping force. And they are sceptical of Ukrainian membership of the EU for fear of their agriculture being massively undercut by cheap imports. Hungary’s Viktor Orban, meanwhile, has denounced the London meeting’s decision to “go on with the war instead of opting for peace.” This is “bad, dangerous and mistaken.” So much for European unity.


“Today, it became clear that the free world needs a new leader,” posted EU foreign policy chief Kaja Kallas on Sunday. “It’s up to us, Europeans, to take this challenge.” Nato Secretary General Mark Rutte claimed that European countries were “stepping up” to make sure Ukraine has what it needs to “stay in the fight as long as it has to continue.”


If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. If European leaders’ tweets were missiles, the Kremlin would now be a smoking ruin. But what Ukraine really needs is a swift end to hostilities and practical help to become free, prosperous and independent. Everything else is just virtue signalling, paid for in Ukrainians’ blood.

 

[CFordUNC]

Oh, look, our resident angry, stupid little man is being angry and stupid. More at 11!

 

[BlueSmoke]

. Trump is the ONLY one who has been trying to achieve peace

I ask again: why is he concerned about peace? If he's not going to fund Ukraine then why care? I suspect he is trying to help Putin.

 

[rodoheel]

Seems your ability to think has been affected by TDS. Trump is the ONLY one who has been trying to achieve peace and the ZZL has been ripping him and suckling Europe. And you are full of shit in your claim that nobody was defending Biden.

Hey dumbass I didn't say no one ever defended Biden I said no one is defending him as part of this conversation. This conversation is simply not about Biden. It's about Trump. The fact that you feel the need to reflexively reference Biden in defending Trump is an implicit acknowledgement that you can't defend his actions on their own merits.

As to the larger point, the idea that "Trump is the ONLY one who has been trying to achieve peace" is laughable. Trump is simply the only one on the Western side foolish enough to believe that "peace" on the terms Russia wants is a good idea. Europe wants peace on terms that discourages Russia from further incursions and punishes it for its brazen invasion, not encourages and rewards them. Anyone who believes a deal on Putin's terms is going to lead to lasting peace is more gullible than the people who believed Trump when he said he didn't know what project 2025 was and had no intention of implementing it.

 

[DougDaBroadcasta]

Looks like trump knows a bit more than the ZZL experts and is the only one who seems to have a grasp on the futility of continued war. He may prevent WW3

“Take sanctions. They were meant to bring the Russian economy to its knees and cripple Putin’s war machine. Perhaps they might have, if Europe had been willing to give up the fatal addiction to Russian energy that Trump repeatedly warned about back in 2017. Since the invasion the Kremlin has made close to a trillion dollars from oil and gas sales – much of it from European customers.”

“But in any case the UK has little to do with this in principle or practice. And as Poland’s Prime Minister Donald Tusk admitted after the London meeting, there was “no unity” on seizing Russian assets in Europe. Though all leaders present agreed it was a good idea, he said that some countries “feared the consequences either for the euro or the banking system”.

“If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. If European leaders’ tweets were missiles, the Kremlin would now be a smoking ruin. But what Ukraine really needs is a swift end to hostilities and practical help to become free, prosperous and independent. Everything else is just virtue signalling, paid for in Ukrainians’ blood.”

Do you throw away the pubes you get in your mouth when gargling Trump, or do you keep them as mementos?

 

[CFordUNC]

Hey dumbass I didn't say no one ever defended Biden I said no one is defending him as part of this conversation. This conversation is simply not about Biden. It's about Trump. The fact that you feel the need to reflexively reference Biden in defending Trump is an implicit acknowledgement that you can't defend his actions on their own merits.

As to the larger point, the idea that "Trump is the ONLY one who has been trying to achieve peace" is laughable. Trump is simply the only one on the Western side foolish enough to believe that "peace" on the terms Russia wants is a good idea. Europe wants peace on terms that discourages Russia from further incursions and punishes it for its brazen invasion, not encourages and rewards them. Anyone who believes a deal on Putin's terms is going to lead to lasting peace is more gullible than the people who believed Trump when he said he didn't know what project 2025 was and had no intention of implementing it.

Calla has that combo stage 4 Biden Derangement Syndrome and ZZLPDS. No cure, unfortunately. At some point soon we’re just gonna have to take him out back and treat him like a race horse with a broken leg.

 

[Callatoroy]

Oh, look, our resident angry, stupid little man is being angry and stupid. More at 11!

Oh look, our little spineless, convictionless, and politically bi-polar clown just realized he is and has been full of shit with every comment he has made on this topic.

 

[Callatoroy]

Do you throw away the pubes you get in your mouth when gargling Trump, or do you keep them as mementos?

I get it Doug. Nothing to add so insult. So typical

 

[Callatoroy]

Calla has that combo stage 4 Biden Derangement Syndrome and ZZLPDS. No cure, unfortunately. At some point soon we’re just gonna have to take him out back and treat him like a race horse with a broken leg.

Lol at you ford, just admit you are about as clueless as CF. You are Lennie’s dad. Good thing your wife has a skill to support you because you are night bright enough to do so.

 

[Callatoroy]

Hey dumbass I didn't say no one ever defended Biden I said no one is defending him as part of this conversation. This conversation is simply not about Biden. It's about Trump. The fact that you feel the need to reflexively reference Biden in defending Trump is an implicit acknowledgement that you can't defend his actions on their own merits.

As to the larger point, the idea that "Trump is the ONLY one who has been trying to achieve peace" is laughable. Trump is simply the only one on the Western side foolish enough to believe that "peace" on the terms Russia wants is a good idea. Europe wants peace on terms that discourages Russia from further incursions and punishes it for its brazen invasion, not encourages and rewards them. Anyone who believes a deal on Putin's terms is going to lead to lasting peace is more gullible than the people who believed Trump when he said he didn't know what project 2025 was and had no intention of implementing it.

His actions don’t need defending. He is the only one who has a clue as to how to handle this.

 

[Callatoroy]

Hey dumbass I didn't say no one ever defended Biden I said no one is defending him as part of this conversation. This conversation is simply not about Biden. It's about Trump. The fact that you feel the need to reflexively reference Biden in defending Trump is an implicit acknowledgement that you can't defend his actions on their own merits.

As to the larger point, the idea that "Trump is the ONLY one who has been trying to achieve peace" is laughable. Trump is simply the only one on the Western side foolish enough to believe that "peace" on the terms Russia wants is a good idea. Europe wants peace on terms that discourages Russia from further incursions and punishes it for its brazen invasion, not encourages and rewards them. Anyone who believes a deal on Putin's terms is going to lead to lasting peace is more gullible than the people who believed Trump when he said he didn't know what project 2025 was and had no intention of implementing it.

Think about how dumb your 2nd paragraph sounds as Europe is paying for the war they think they have any leverage of ending. They are literally paying their enemy to wage war. You think that’s a sound strategy for strong negotiations?

 

[4thgenheel]

 

[Callatoroy]

I ask again: why is he concerned about peace? If he's not going to fund Ukraine then why care? I suspect he is trying to help Putin.

Seems Europe is supplying all the help Putin needs.

 

[Bobfripp]

Only for you Dr Bob. Was in my Apple News so I didn’t have the paywall

Sir Keir Starmer and our European allies have issued a lot of brave words and fighting talk on protecting Ukraine and taking on Putin. “We are at a crossroads in history today,” Starmer said after the London summit, announcing a “coalition of the willing” to support Zelensky. “European unity is at an extremely high level not seen for a long time.” Is it, though?


The truth is that Europe last year paid far more money to Putin’s coffers in the form of oil and gas payments than it has given to the Ukrainians – and continues to do so. Europe today imports far more Russian liquefied natural gas, or LNG, from Russia than at the beginning of the war.


Most of the “shadow fleet” Russia uses to avoid sanctions are also owned by European, especially Greek, companies. Germany’s ascendant right wing AfD party is openly calling for a reopening of the surviving branch of Gazprom’s Nord-Stream 2 Baltic gas pipeline. Europe’s big talk of fighting Putin is hypocritical nonsense while they are bankrolling the Kremlin war machine.


Take sanctions. They were meant to bring the Russian economy to its knees and cripple Putin’s war machine. Perhaps they might have, if Europe had been willing to give up the fatal addiction to Russian energy that Trump repeatedly warned about back in 2017. Since the invasion the Kremlin has made close to a trillion dollars from oil and gas sales – much of it from European customers.


Even as bombs began to rain down on Kyiv, and as Brussels passed successive rafts of sanctions, Russian gas was never subject to any restrictions or penalties. It was Putin, not Brussels, who shut down gas exports through Nord Stream in July of 2022 in a crude attempt to squash Germany’s growing arms supplies.


Two months later saboteurs – definitively fingered by German and Danish investigators as Ukrainians – blew up three of the four undersea Nord Stream pipes. All of Europe was forced to scramble for alternative supplies of LNG from the US, Canada, Qatar and… Russia.


In 2024 EU member states bought €21.9 billion of Russian oil and gas – but only gave €18.7 billion in financial aid to Ukraine, according to a report by the Helsinki-based Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air. Russia is currently Europe’s number two supplier of LNG, after the US, up nearly 14 per cent in 2023.


Until January 1 of this year Gazprom was still supplying Hungary, the Czech Republic and Slovakia with natural gas through a pipeline that runs through Ukraine. Russia has continued to pay nearly a billion euros a year in transit fees for this gas to Kyiv through subsidiaries in Switzerland. Mind-bogglingly, that made Gazprom one of the largest taxpayers in Ukraine for the first three years of the war. Even after the shutdown of the trans-Ukrainian pipeline, though, Southeast and Central Europe continue to buy Russian gas indirectly through Turkey.


It’s a similar story with oil supplies. Foreign Secretary David Lammy announced the UK’s new sanctions package recently, claiming that we “continue to set the pace in ratcheting up the economic pressure on the Kremlin.” Among the measures were sanctions against 40 oil tankers involved in “pouring money into Putin’s war chest.”


But that’s a mere 40 of the over seven hundred tankers shipping Russian oil. One would be forgiven for imagining that these “sanctions” on Russian oil exports mean that it is somehow banned. It’s absolutely not. Instead, the US and EU have imposed a $60 per barrel price cap, versus a market rate for Urals Crude of $62 a barrel in December. And even that tiny difference is childishly easy to get around by accounting tricks.


Lammy also claims to have “with partners, already denied Putin access to $400 billion.” What weasel words. The UK holds next to no Russian Central Bank Assets directly. Most are in Belgium’s Euroclear system and the rest in the US – and there’s still no consensus on what to do with those funds or how to legally confiscate them.


But in any case the UK has little to do with this in principle or practice. And as Poland’s Prime Minister Donald Tusk admitted after the London meeting, there was “no unity” on seizing Russian assets in Europe. Though all leaders present agreed it was a good idea, he said that some countries “feared the consequences either for the euro or the banking system”.


The Poles, by the way, have also announced that they will form no part of the Starmer-Macron peacekeeping force. And they are sceptical of Ukrainian membership of the EU for fear of their agriculture being massively undercut by cheap imports. Hungary’s Viktor Orban, meanwhile, has denounced the London meeting’s decision to “go on with the war instead of opting for peace.” This is “bad, dangerous and mistaken.” So much for European unity.


“Today, it became clear that the free world needs a new leader,” posted EU foreign policy chief Kaja Kallas on Sunday. “It’s up to us, Europeans, to take this challenge.” Nato Secretary General Mark Rutte claimed that European countries were “stepping up” to make sure Ukraine has what it needs to “stay in the fight as long as it has to continue.”


If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. If European leaders’ tweets were missiles, the Kremlin would now be a smoking ruin. But what Ukraine really needs is a swift end to hostilities and practical help to become free, prosperous and independent. Everything else is just virtue signalling, paid for in Ukrainians’ blood.

Thank you!

 

[rodoheel]

His actions don’t need defending. He is the only one who has a clue as to how to handle this.

Just listen to yourself. You think Donald Trump is the smartest person in the Western world when it comes to international diplomacy? LOL

It is not difficult to appease a tyrant. It's the path of least resistance. Anyone who praises trump for achieving peace by simply giving Putin everything he wants is just as dumb as people who praised Neville Chamberlain for achieving peace in Europe through appeasement in the 1930s. The Europeans know what happens when you try to appease a dictator who invades other countries. You, apparently, have forgotten anything about European history prior to March 2022 or so.

 

[Callatoroy]

Just listen to yourself. You think Donald Trump is the smartest person in the Western world when it comes to international diplomacy? LOL

It is not difficult to appease a tyrant. It's the path of least resistance. Anyway who praises trump for achieving peace by simply giving Putin everything he wants is just as dumb as people who praised Neville Chamberlain for achieving peace in Europe through appeasement in the 1930s. The Europeans know what happens when you try to appease a dictator who invades other countries. You, apparently, have forgotten anything about European history prior to March 2022 or so.

You don’t know what he would give Putin do you? It’s just your speculation right? Why are you trying to use that as justification for supporting your argument. Clearly that doesn’t look like the best strategy now does it?

 

[theel4life]

I ask again: why is he concerned about peace? If he's not going to fund Ukraine then why care? I suspect he is trying to help Putin.

Of course he is. Always has. Putin owns his ugly ass.

 

[CFordUNC]

Oh look, our little spineless, convictionless, and politically bi-polar clown just realized he is and has been full of shit with every comment he has made on this topic.

Lolololol. So much anger and resentment! So much insecurity! You ever thought about therapy, hoss?