Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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CHAMTRAIN said:
Also forces the US's hand. Mouth breathers won't be applauding Trump when Putin is killing British and French soldiers. We would be obligated....and Putin would have to know that. It's a way to drag the U.S. into defending Ukraine against Trumps will.
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I think you’re giving maga far, far too much credit. To them, Brits and the French are liberal coastal elites and the Russians are salt of the earth. At least this is what they’ll tell themselves, bc, truly, they’ve simply outsourced their morality and any shred of political free will to don and/or musk.
 
CFordUNC said:
It really is so unfathomable that so many Americans simply…..got bored….of being the strongest, most powerful, most economically prosperous, most influential nation in the world, and decided to elect the only person in the history of the nation who ran for president on an explicit platform of dismantling and destroying it all. Every other empire that I can think of in the history of the world declined because they were usurped by outside forces. Ours did it voluntarily.
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This is definitely trolling. How are we declining currently?
 
Silence Dogood said:
This is definitely trolling. How are we declining currently?
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Um, alienating our closest allies, aligning ourselves with Putin & Russia against said former allies, turning even Canada against us, gutting essential government workers and programs (like firefighters and weather forecasters for instance) and gutting essential vaccine and medical and scientific research, while not focusing on strengthening the economy despite GOP claims that it would be a top priority once Dear Leader was elected? Is that a good start?
 
Mulberry Heel said:
Um, alienating our closest allies, aligning ourselves with Putin & Russia against said former allies, turning even Canada against us, gutting essential government workers and programs (like firefighters and weather forecasters for instance) and gutting essential vaccine and medical and scientific research, while not focusing on strengthening the economy despite GOP claims that it would be a top priority once Dear Leader was elected? Is that a good start?
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Well measured response Mulberry. I was thinking of something a lot more bombastic, but you stated the case very well. Thanks.
 
Mulberry Heel said:
Um, alienating our closest allies, aligning ourselves with Putin & Russia against said former allies, turning even Canada against us, gutting essential government workers and programs (like firefighters and weather forecasters for instance) and gutting essential vaccine and medical and scientific research, while not focusing on strengthening the economy despite GOP claims that it would be a top priority once Dear Leader was elected? Is that a good start?
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Thats all opinion, and misleading. Trump is calling for a cease fire and simply wants to start negotiating with Putin. That's it. You can talk with enemies. How come you guys don't blame other countries for not helping? He's removing excess waste. Instead of overreacting let's see how it plays out. Majority of people think their govt doesn't represent them. Remember Trump was very open on what he would do and people voted for it.
 
Silence Dogood said:
Thats all opinion, and misleading. Trump is calling for a cease fire and simply wants to start negotiating with Putin. That's it. You can talk with enemies. How come you guys don't blame other countries for not helping? He's removing excess waste. Instead of overreacting let's see how it plays out. Majority of people think their govt doesn't represent them. Remember Trump was very open on what he would do and people voted for it.
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I think the majority of people think Russia invaded Ukraine and we need to help Ukraine Orangeturd is berating Ukraine and Bizzaroworld asking for Ukraine to give us their mineral resources for some some dumb fucking reason???
 
Silence Dogood said:
Thats all opinion, and misleading. Trump is calling for a cease fire and simply wants to start negotiating with Putin. That's it. You can talk with enemies. How come you guys don't blame other countries for not helping? He's removing excess waste. Instead of overreacting let's see how it plays out. Majority of people think their govt doesn't represent them. Remember Trump was very open on what he would do and people voted for it.
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So our allies aren't turning against us? Canada isn't pissed? Trump literally chewed out the President of Ukraine and threatened him and he just wants to start negotiating with Putin? LOL, are you blind, dude? Other countries have been helping us help Ukraine fight a literal Russian invasion of their country. Have the Russians shown any interest in negotiations that won't give them control over much of Ukraine, a friendly Ukrainian government, and nearly everything they want? Are firefighters excess waste? Meteorologists? Social Security employees? Vaccine researchers? Nuclear engineers? Polls clearly show that most Americans don't support firing all of these people.

And a great many people somehow convinced themselves during the campaign that Trump 2.0 wouldn't actually do all of these things. And now that he is opposition seems to be growing, as these town halls even in deep red districts are showing. And Trump wasn't "very open on what he would do" - he actually lied repeatedly when asked if he had heard of Project 2025 and claimed that he knew almost nothing about it, even though his campaign was filled with Project 2025 people. You asked for evidence that we are in decline, and I gave you specific real-world examples. And as expected you just dismiss it all as nothing and continue acting as if nothing unusual is happening. To everyone with eyes who isn't a member of the Trump cult like yourself, it is painfully clear that Trump is a full-blown Putin stooge who wants Putin as a ally at the expense of our traditional allies. But continue denying it all you want.
 
Silence Dogood said:
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God, this is so delusional. Trump is 10 moves ahead of everybody? LOL. This sounds like a mob boss move - tell Ukraine that unless they give us their minerals and natural resources we'll just turn them over to the Russians. And we already had Russia in a bad spot, it's not like they were winning the war before Trump took office. And the way you get Zelensky to sign the minerals deal is to very publicly attack and berate him in the White House? Brilliant negotiator, that Trump!
 
SnoopRob said:
Do you have a source for that or anything to add any details to that claim?

Because it's been a long (long, long) time since I read TAotD, but I don't remember it being particularly political.
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I don't but strangely it has always been the one thing that I remembered from TAotD, which I similarly haven't read for decades. It wasn't a political book, but it delved a bit into his view that the US should not be involved in overseas conflicts. Given how long it has been, I will concede that it is possible that my brain has scrambled up TAotD with some other Trump book after the TAotD. Nevertheless, it is not difficult to find articles and interviews/speeches that reference Trump as an isolationist including one from Pence linked below. Trump at his core does not believe in doing things for others and he has demonstrated that throughout his private and public life. That correlates with an isolationist viewpoint.



www.c-span.org

Mike Pence Warns Donald Trump Is Embracing Isolationism Over American Leadership

Former Vice President Mike Pence in a foreign policy speech at the Hudson Institute in Washington, D.C. says that some Republicans, including former President Donald Trump, are "abandoning the traditional conservative position of American leadership on the world stage and embracing a new and...
www.c-span.org www.c-span.org

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thehill.com
 
dcphx said:
I don't but strangely it has always been the one thing that I remembered from TAotD, which I similarly haven't read for decades. It wasn't a political book, but it delved a bit into his view that the US should not be involved in overseas conflicts. Given how long it has been, I will concede that it is possible that my brain has scrambled up TAotD with some other Trump book after the TAotD. Nevertheless, it is not difficult to find articles and interviews/speeches that reference Trump as an isolationist including one from Pence linked below. Trump at his core does not believe in doing things for others and he has demonstrated that throughout his private and public life. That correlates with an isolationist viewpoint.



www.c-span.org

Mike Pence Warns Donald Trump Is Embracing Isolationism Over American Leadership

Former Vice President Mike Pence in a foreign policy speech at the Hudson Institute in Washington, D.C. says that some Republicans, including former President Donald Trump, are "abandoning the traditional conservative position of American leadership on the world stage and embracing a new and...
www.c-span.org www.c-span.org

Loading…

thehill.com
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I don't disagree that Trump has been portrayed as an isolationist, but that's because the traditional view runs on a spectrum between interventionists on one side and isolationists on the other and he's certainly not a traditional interventionist.

I'm saying that the view is wrong because Trump isn't actually an isolationist (or an interventionist) at a philosophical or even practical level, he's a transactionalist. He's not against getting involved in the affairs of other countries using the tools he has at his disposal, but he only does so when he views that he directly benefits from doing so or when another country offers him direct benefits for doing so. He believes that certain countries and their leaders are his friends (not America's friends, his friends) and he has no compunction about mobilizing US resources to benefit those leaders/countries...Netanyahu & Israel, Putin & Russia, Orban & Hungary, etc. An actual isolationist would be for getting us out of Ukraine altogether, Trump is predominantly worried about mineral rights and securing Russian interests. An isolationsist wouldn't care if other NATO countries paid "their fair share", they'd be working to get us out of NATO altogether. And an isolationist certainly wouldn't have us trying to acquire the Panama Canal and/or Greenland, they'd be getting us out of those places altogether. Ergo, Trump can't be accurately labelled an isolationist and instead a new label (indeed, a new axis) must be created to explain how Trump approaches foreign policy.
 
nycfan said:


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One does wonder why all European NATO nations weren’t invited. The Baltic States weren’t invited. They’ve said so publicly.

I don’t know if Belgium, Bulgaria, Greece, Iceland, Luxembourg, Portugal, Turkey, or the Balkan NATO nations were invited and chose not to attend.

I see the logic behind not inviting Hungary and Slovakia - they’re led by Putin-like and Putin-wannabe authoritarians.
 
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